Episode 45

Performing to Parenthood: Dave Barnes Unplugged

We couldn't stop laughing....get ready for a delightful and candid conversation with the incredibly talented and funny singer-songwriter Dave Barnes, who opens up about the challenges and joys of balancing artistry, fatherhood, and the expectations that come with both.

As he shares his experiences, Dave emphasizes the importance of authenticity in a world that often romanticizes the artist's life, reminding us that much of parenting is filled with mundane moments that deserve recognition.

Our discussion dives deep into the pressures of being in the spotlight while striving to maintain genuine connections with family and friends. With a playful tone and plenty of humor, Dave reflects on his journey, including the fascinating dynamics of his marriage to Annie and their three kids.

Dave also talks about Dadville - his incredible podcast with his co-host, Jon McLaughlin. On Dadville, Dave and John share dad jokes, interviews, and heartfelt conversations in every episode.

This episode is a must-listen for any fan of Daves, but also for those currently navigating the complexities of life, creativity, and personal relationships.

Takeaways:

The challenge of authenticity lies in balancing personal honesty with audience expectations in artistry.
Dave emphasizes the importance of community for recognizing and fostering authenticity.
Balancing the demands of creativity and family life can be a constant struggle for artists.
Parenting can feel overwhelming and mundane, yet it's essential to find joy in these moments.
The Dadville Podcast offers valuable insights into parenting while also fostering genuine connections.
Engaging with fans requires navigating the line between accessibility and personal boundaries.

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About Dave Barnes

Although born in South Carolina, singer/songwriter Dave Barnes spent most of his childhood in Mississippi, where he formed an early attachment to hip-hop but was also exposed to classic soul, blues, and R&B by his parents. He later enrolled at Middle Tennessee State University and began writing songs for other artists.

Barnes moved to Nashville, Tennessee, and gravitated toward the city's acoustic folk scene, though the desire to make more groove-oriented music convinced him to assemble a full band. Barnes' soulful pop songs won him the support of artists like John Mayer, while the spiritual tone of his lyrics earned some support from the Christian music scene.

Dave has had over 100 songs recorded by other artists such as Florida Georgia Line, Tim McGraw, Reba McEntire, Dan + Shay, Carrie Underwood, NEEDTOBREATHE, Billy Currington, and countless more. Of those songs, he has landed two #1's with "God Gave Me You" (BlakeShelton) and“Craving You”(Thomas Rhett and Maren Morris), a #2 with“You”(Dan + Shay), and a #13 with“Like a Lady”(Lady A).

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The One Big Thing is produced by NQR Media. NQR also produces the award-winning Ditch the Suits Podcast, of which Steve is a co-host. For more, visit https://www.nqrmedia.com/

You can watch all episodes, as well as other great content produced by NQR Media, through their YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/@NQRMedia

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Transcript

Steve Campbell: 00:00:02

Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast where inspiration beats transformation.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:12

And so I think, you know, trying to be honest, trying to not over romanticize yourself is.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:17

Is tricky because you.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:18

There's an honesty that's encouraging to listen to and is empowering and is vulnerable and draws people in, but there's also an honesty where people are like, oh, man, what a schmuck.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:28

I think artistry is.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:29

You're trying to be honest, but you also know that there's a certain honesty that works and then there's.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:33

There's one that kind of doesn't.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:34

The funny thing is, is, like, my wife, I mean, it's hysterical.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:37

It's one of the reasons I love her so much.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:38

But, I mean, she loves what I do.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:40

She thinks it's great, but she kind of.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:42

She's.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:42

She's just not super interested in all the love songs.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:45

And you would think that, like someone that's written as many as I have.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:48

And your point where people have used them in their weddings and stuff, I think people can think like, oh, my God.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:52

I mean, is she just.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:53

Does she just love all these.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:55

And she's.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:56

She likes him.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:56

I'm not at all thrown under the bus.

Dave Barnes: 00:00:58

I mean, she's very encourag and definitely my biggest supporter, but it's a job.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:02

And I think for her it's kind of like, yeah, it's great.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:03

Now, could you.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:04

Could you go outside and cook the salmon?

Dave Barnes: 00:01:05

We just need it.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:06

We're kind of waiting on you.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:07

I'm like, yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:07

But then the chorus goes like.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:08

It's like.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:09

But still, we're all hungry, so if we could just kind of wrap this up and get it, you know, and so I think there's a point where it is a job too.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:16

And I think that's where you have to kind of weigh these things with their appropriate weight and how they factor into your life and how much time you give them and how important they really are.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:25

Oh, we're just gonna start with a laugh.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:27

Welcome back to the One Big Thing podcast.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:29

I'm your host, Steve Campbell.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:30

This is gonna be a.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:31

This is gonna be a great one.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:32

Today.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:32

I got real hot mics.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:33

I got.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:34

Now it's pressure.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:35

Yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:35

Like, I gotta really deliver.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:37

I got Dave Barnes, who has been oddly, weirdly, intimately connected to my life as he was part of our wedding song.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:43

And I actually sang one of his songs to my wife at her wedding.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:46

The.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:46

The audio equipment wasn't that great, so it was like, you kind of heard a little bit, but you could see my face.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:51

Sounded like Aaron Neville.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:54

Is he still alive?

Steve Campbell: 00:01:55

Well, we.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:56

We lie.

Dave Barnes: 00:01:57

What a great.

Steve Campbell: 00:01:59

What a great musician.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:00

The One Big Thing, this interview style show.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:02

So I reached out to Dave on a number of occasions and he's gracious enough to finally come on and you know, preparing for a show, you do your own research.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:08

And I thought I could do the standard.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:10

Dave Barnes, tell me your One Big thing and we can spend 30 minutes unpacking it.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:14

But I also just thought let's just have a lot of fun and have a conversation today.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:17

Yeah, so.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:18

So Dave is a singer, songwriter, he has produced multiple albums.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:22

I've seen him multiple times in concert.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:24

But he also host the Dadville podcast with his good co host John, where they talk about life and parenting and being a dad and what it's all about.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:31

So he's got a little bit of music, a little bit of stand up.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:33

Dave, is there anything I've butchered here at the beginning that people really need to know about you?

Dave Barnes: 00:02:37

No.

Dave Barnes: 00:02:37

This is.

Dave Barnes: 00:02:38

You're killing it.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:39

Okay, well, as I told you, I prepared for this is it by Kenny Loggins.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:44

And so I was doing my own Michael McDonald and you did yours.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:47

And he told me right before we came on, which I don't really know how you keep a straight face after you learn this, but he had dinner with Michael McDonald.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:53

So yeah, a big deal for me.

Steve Campbell: 00:02:56

It's like I had dinner with Michael McDonald by talking to you.

Dave Barnes: 00:02:59

Yeah, yeah, you have.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:00

You were there in spirit.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:01

But those cheese sticks, oh gosh.

Steve Campbell: 00:03:04

Are you a big cheese stick guy?

Dave Barnes: 00:03:06

No, I can get weird with some cheese sticks.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:08

I have to let my kids order them, though.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:10

Like, if I order them, I feel like a lot of shame.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:12

But if the kids order them, then I have one or two.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:14

Like, I didn't order them.

Steve Campbell: 00:03:16

Well, that's, that's part of like being a dad and a parent is like getting to live off your kids plates.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:21

Which, yeah, they're sort of the.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:23

They're sort of like the refrigerator period of my Walter Payton where I get to sort link behind them.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:27

They open the.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:28

And then I cut right through.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:29

You know what I mean?

Steve Campbell: 00:03:30

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:03:30

And if you're not careful as a dad, you can end up looking like Brendan Frazier from the way because you've.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:35

Just got a little too far.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:37

One of the first things that my, that my like, doc told me when we had been my oldest was, he was like, look, man, a couple thoughts.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:47

You didn't ask for these, but a couple thoughts, you're going to want to eat.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:52

You're Gonna wanna finish your kids plates.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:54

Cause one, if the food is good, obviously.

Dave Barnes: 00:03:56

But two, there's some weird like maternal thing or I'm sorry, paternal thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:00

Maybe maternal too.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:00

Actually, let's do both.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:02

You choose, you know where you're just like, it's just one more chicken nugget or it's like just a couple more chick fil a fries and you'll eat them.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:08

And he's like, don't do it.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:10

That is how you put the weight on.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:12

If you see dads, you're like, how has he gained so much weight?

Dave Barnes: 00:04:14

He's like, I'm telling you, I'm a doctor.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:17

That is how you do it.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:18

And I was.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:19

And so now it just got like burned into my brain.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:22

And so now when we're.

Dave Barnes: 00:04:23

And it's not that I don't do it, but I'm at least conscious of it, which makes me feel like halfway there, you know, you're aware.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:30

So.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:30

So let me tell you a quick story.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:32

My wife told me that I need to be more aware one time in our marriage.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:35

And I said, steph, that's great, but I'm going to raise you one.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:38

I'm going to be aware that I need to be more aware because I'm just not aware.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:43

So there's a moment where I'm like walking through the house and I'm like, I feel like should.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:50

Should I see something?

Steve Campbell: 00:04:51

And it's like, that's level one for me.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:53

Not even like the thing that's dead in the center of the room, but it's just a.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:57

It's just a conscious.

Steve Campbell: 00:04:58

I need to be aware that I need to be aware of something.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:01

I don't know if I carry more.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:06

Shame is actually not the right word in this context, but like, I just carry this weight of knowing.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:11

Like, I will watch Annie, my wife, mother, and parent, and navigate being a parent.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:19

And she is doing so many things.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:22

She's thinking about so many things.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:24

She is playing 4D chess with our life at all times.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:29

It is she.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:30

Did he get the coat draw?

Dave Barnes: 00:05:31

And then he's got the practice.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:33

We got to make sure the shoes are the.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:34

And then, oh, what Christmas and what should be praying for the kids.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:37

And I am thinking about me the entire time.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:41

And I noticed one time it was really embarrassing.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:44

My buddy and I, who's a dear friend of mine, he was talking about he and his wife kind of having their like yearly sort of like big sit down download.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:50

It's like.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:52

And he said something that was so.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:55

He didn't even know That I don't even know that he knows that it hit me this hard.

Dave Barnes: 00:05:58

But he was like, you know, we were sitting down and just kind of like, talking.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:01

Like, she asked me how I was doing.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:03

I was talking about the kids, and I was like, I think every time any has ever asked me no.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:08

What he was thinking about, his wife was like, what have you been thinking about?

Dave Barnes: 00:06:10

And he's like, yeah, I was thinking about my oldest and how he's doing.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:13

And I'm like, I think anytime any is ever what I'm thinking, it's always me.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:18

Like, I'm always like, well, I was just thinking, like, I wonder if that song is really gonna.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:21

Should I add guitars or that show next week.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:24

I mean, And I was so.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:25

I was so embarrassed that, like, so little of my life.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:29

I'm like, you know, I was thinking about, you know, Sam, our youngest, and just like, how's he doing?

Dave Barnes: 00:06:33

Is he.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:33

She is doing all of that.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:35

I am just so lost in Dave world.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:37

It's really to your point about being aware.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:39

I'm just like.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:40

It is something I know so acutely about myself but is so hard to change.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:46

It's like.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:47

And I.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:47

And I.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:47

She has taught me.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:49

If Annie has taught me anything, she's taught me selflessness and other centeredness, but I'm just so bad at it.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:56

I'm just unbelievably bad at it.

Dave Barnes: 00:06:59

So when she calls.

Steve Campbell: 00:06:59

When she calls, your name is like the cry for help, but also the question.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:03

Like, Dave, when you're sitting there, you just yell seven.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:07

Because you don't, you know, that's what I do.

Dave Barnes: 00:07:10

And then it gets where you are.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:11

In the conversation, and you just, like, first thought, so.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:14

So that's super helpful, Dave.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:15

Obviously, I've kind of followed your journey.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:17

Why don't you tell people, though, that may not know you, if that's possible.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:20

How many kids do you have?

Steve Campbell: 00:07:21

We know your wife's name is Annie, but how many kids?

Dave Barnes: 00:07:23

We got three kids.

Dave Barnes: 00:07:24

We got seventh grade, fourth grade, second grade.

Dave Barnes: 00:07:27

Okay.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:28

You said your oldest name is Ben.

Dave Barnes: 00:07:30

Ben, yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:31

Okay, so I got to give a shout out to my dear friend Ben Thomas, who actually introduced me to.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:37

Until you 14 years ago, maybe the EP version.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:41

And I was like, you got to listen to this guy.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:43

And I got together with him a couple weeks ago.

Steve Campbell: 00:07:46

n this comes out, it'll be in: 2025

Steve Campbell: 00:07:51

But we had gotten together for Thanksgiving, and we live four hours apart, so we meet every Thanksgiving at a jump park for our K kids and two hours in between us.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:00

Yep, you were there.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:02

And we get together.

Dave Barnes: 00:08:04

Amazing.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:04

I love this because when I lived in upstate New York, we were 12 hours away.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:08

And so we spent, I don't know, three months together for Christian leadership training.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:13

We were both college athletes.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:15

And so they got us all together in a frat house.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:17

The men were upstairs, the women were on the bottom and thank you, Jesus.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:21

And we got together for three months to learn about the Lord, but to also just grow in discipleship.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:26

And him and I like, you ever just meet somebody and you're like, we're best.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:29

We weren't roommate, but it's like we're best friends.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:31

We both got jobs at McDonald's because we thought, we're never going to work at McDonald's a day in our life.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:36

I was the drive thru guy, he was the ice cream guy.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:39

And the stories, those are power.

Dave Barnes: 00:08:41

Those are power positions.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:43

One this on, I have to interject because Ben, I know, is going to listen to this episode and he will laugh because we always laugh about it.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:49

But something happened where I don't know if it's just we were so mature as McDonald's employees that the managers would just like leave, like everyone would leave the store.

Steve Campbell: 00:08:58

We actually got two people that went to college and know what they're doing.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:02

So somebody had ordered an ice cream cone.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:04

And it's when you're working at McDonald's and you lower the level, you have to raise the level back up to stop the machine.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:10

And McDonald's, which is true of a.

Dave Barnes: 00:09:11

Lot of things in life, by the.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:12

Way, that we miss.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:14

McDonald's had an unbelievable playlist every day.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:16

And I want to say Rock with you by Michael Jackson was playing and we just got done making an ice cream cone lever down.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:24

And here's like him and I were vibing in the kitchen.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:26

We're dancing around, you're feeling, you turn around, the ice cream is spewing out ice cream.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:32

We never lifted the lever and no one is in the restaurant.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:35

And for three minutes it was like the, the Titanic scene where it was just white cream all over the floor and him and I panicking, trying to clean ice cream at McDonald's.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:48

And thank you, Jesus.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:49

No one walked in the door.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:50

No one left.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:51

It was just him and I and it was his moment.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:53

So long story short, we get together now every year at Thanksgiving because he's got five kids and I've got four.

Steve Campbell: 00:09:59

And it's just very cool because I remember dreaming with him when we were in Colorado about someday we're going to get married and someday we're going to be best friends and live on the same cul de sac dream hasn't fully, but we meet up, we meet up in Kentucky and we get to get with each other.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:13

So when I was with him, he said, hey, reach out to Dave one more time.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:16

And I thought, all right, I'm going to throw a Hail Mary, a DM on Instagram and see if he'll respond.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:20

And I saw the bubbles and I said, ben, something's happening.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:24

And you got back to me and said, hey, you know, go through my manager and stuff.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:27

So.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:27

So Ben Thomas, you partner, are as much of this podcast as my dinner with Michael McDonald.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:33

So if the four of us can get together at some point, worlds might collide.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:39

So you got, you got three kids, you got your wife Annie, you got the Dadville podcast, you write a lot of songs.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:44

This was a curious question that I had for you.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:46

Your lyrics are super, super powerful.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:49

And, you know, you write a lot about your kids and your family and these Christmas albums.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:54

But you also said that you're very me centered.

Steve Campbell: 00:10:56

And I wonder if this is something that with content creators, with podcasters, you can be so into what you do in making a great podcast with a Dave Barnes.

Steve Campbell: 00:11:07

And then when it's with like the people that you're talking about, you're not, you're not given the same effort or you're just not as present.

Steve Campbell: 00:11:15

But when you, like, talk about them or sing about them, like, you come to life, do you ever, like, struggle or have your own self doubt about yourself that you can write these songs about your kids, but then when they're actually with you, it's not that you don't love your kids or like, you don't cherish the moments, but it's not that you're fake either.

Steve Campbell: 00:11:33

But like, I can come on a podcast and talk about how wonderful my children are, and then they bust through the door after school and I'm like, oh gosh, like, give me a break.

Steve Campbell: 00:11:40

Like, is there ever that tension of when you're a singer, songwriter, recording the podcast, like, what has been the most revealing thing to you about balancing, like, recording songs, recording podcasts, and then just like actually being a dad and a husband?

Dave Barnes: 00:11:56

Yeah, it's, it's easy to paint a picture of yourself that's very one dimensional or, or just represents one part of one aspect or angle of the, of the, you know, of the whole thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:12

And so I think, you know, trying to be honest, trying to not over romanticize yourself.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:17

Is.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:17

Is tricky because you, you know, you.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:20

There's an honesty that's encouraging to listen to and is empowering and is vulnerable and draws people in, but there's also an honesty where people are like, oh man, what a schmuck.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:30

You know what I mean?

Dave Barnes: 00:12:31

So I think, you know, that's what's hard about, I think artistry is you're trying to be honest, but you also know that, you know, there's a certain honesty that works and then there's.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:41

There's one that kind of doesn't.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:42

And so.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:44

And you know, the funny thing is, is like my wife, I mean, it's hysterical.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:47

It's one of the reasons I love her so much.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:48

But I mean, she loves what I do.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:50

She thinks it's great, but she kind of.

Steve Campbell: 00:12:52

She's.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:52

She's just not super interested in all the love songs.

Dave Barnes: 00:12:55

And you would think that, like, you know, someone that's written as many as I have and, you know, your point where, you know, people have used them in their weddings and stuff, I think people can think like, oh, my God.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:04

I mean, is she just.

Steve Campbell: 00:13:06

Does she just melt?

Steve Campbell: 00:13:07

Does she melt?

Dave Barnes: 00:13:08

And she's.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:08

And she likes him.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:09

I'm not at all thrown under the bus.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:11

I mean, she's very encouraging and definitely my biggest supporter.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:15

But, you know, it's a job.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:16

And I think for her it's kind of like, yeah, it's great.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:18

Now, could you just.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:19

Could you go outside and cook the salmon?

Dave Barnes: 00:13:20

We just need to.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:21

We're kind of waiting on you.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:22

I'm like, yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:22

But then the chorus goes like.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:23

She's like, oh, it's all of it.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:25

But still we're all hungry, so if we could just kind of wrap this up and get, you know, and so I think there's a point where it is a job too.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:31

And I think that's where you have to kind of, you know, weigh these things with their appropriate weight and how they factor into your life and how much time you give them and how important they really are, you know, And I think that's where it gets kind of tricky is because, you know, it can be a little, well, a lot over romanticized when, you know, it's.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:50

It's also work, you know, it's kind of like at some point it's a song you've sung 2,000 times and you love it, but, you know, you're kind of like, yeah, it's like a thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:13:58

It's another thing that I sort of sell and put out there in the world and people like it, and I'm glad to do it, but it's also just kind of a thing, you know?

Steve Campbell: 00:14:06

So Stephen Day, who.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:07

Dude, I freaking love.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:09

And I had him on the show and it, like, surreal for me, like, even having you on and Stephen Ste.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:14

And Stephen Day on.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:15

On camera with me.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:16

And, like, he had talked about something.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:18

I wonder if this has been your experience.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:20

He's like, when you are.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:21

Oh, hat mode.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:22

If you guys want, you can watch this video on YouTube.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:25

I'll share a link.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:26

But Dave just put a hat on.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:27

And he just.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:27

Now this is like R B Dave.

Dave Barnes: 00:14:29

Wow.

Dave Barnes: 00:14:29

This is R and B Dave.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:32

That's you, Mr.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:34

Call.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:34

But Steve was like, Steven, sorry, wrote.

Dave Barnes: 00:14:37

He.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:38

He said the one thing about when you write songs is when you write them, they're yours and nobody knows about them.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:43

And then you release them into the world and, like, they do really well, but it, like, loses the magic of when you were writing it.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:50

Nobody knew.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:50

And should you add more keys or should you add some synth, which.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:54

Phil Collins.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:55

Thank you for bridging the gap for all of us.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:57

But.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:58

But I wonder if, like, that's for you.

Steve Campbell: 00:14:59

And I was thinking about leading up to this show, I'm getting ready to see you again in concert, and you're going to sing songs that you've sung in other places.

Steve Campbell: 00:15:06

And it is work.

Steve Campbell: 00:15:07

Does.

Steve Campbell: 00:15:08

Does it ever lose its luster in the sense of, like, do you have to work yourself up to go do a concert?

Steve Campbell: 00:15:13

Or is it still.

Steve Campbell: 00:15:15

Every time you're getting ready to walk out on stage, you're just like, this is my life.

Steve Campbell: 00:15:19

I'm going to go crush it?

Steve Campbell: 00:15:20

Or like, is it the same feelings that people that have nine to fives have where it's like, I got to show up at the office, like, all these years into it, is there just maybe feelings that now you're having that you just never thought when you first started post college, like, that you're having today?

Dave Barnes: 00:15:36

Yeah, that's a really great question.

Dave Barnes: 00:15:39

I think, like, there's a lot of this that.

Dave Barnes: 00:15:41

Well, you know what?

Dave Barnes: 00:15:42

There's nothing new under the sun, first of all.

Dave Barnes: 00:15:44

And so I think I would be doing the human existence a disservice by trying to make some specific struggle to what I do, because there's nothing.

Dave Barnes: 00:15:54

Everybody struggles with these things.

Dave Barnes: 00:15:57

But I do think, you know, you know, once you've done this enough, it's like, it does get a little jobby.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:02

You know, like, shows can get, you know, you just sort of go, yeah, it's another Night, another show.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:07

But I will say this, and this sounds like I'm potentially backtracking and.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:10

Or, like, judging the answer a bit.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:13

But it feels like about the first or second song, it's like, oh, man, this is fun.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:18

Like, these people are here.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:20

You kind of hear the first applause or people yelling curse words at you, whatever your show is like.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:25

And then it's like something gets activated.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:27

You know, it's kind of like, oh, man, we're up here.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:30

It's like, I said this a couple times in my last few shows, and it's true.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:34

I kind of have these moments where I'll sort of get lost in the show.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:37

Like, you know, you're playing, and I'm listening to what my band is doing, or my buddy Destiny plays piano with me, and I'll kind of look up and go, like, oh, man, there's, like, people here, you know, which is great.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:46

That's like, you want to be at that place, because the place you don't want to be is like, did we eat already?

Dave Barnes: 00:16:50

God.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:51

Oh, that Thai place is down the street, like, in the middle of a song, you know, you're like.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:55

But you're like, man, I'm still a little hungry.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:57

I wonder if we'll have time to get something.

Dave Barnes: 00:16:59

You know, like, that's not where you want to be, is where you're kind of, like, doing your job as opposed to really being in the moment and performing and doing these things.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:06

But I think, thankfully, it's really rare that where it's like a show where I'm kind of like, man, I just sort of.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:12

I just wasn't there.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:14

I was just kind of doing.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:15

I was doing my thing and moving on.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:17

I think one thing that helps with that with me is, I think, because my banter, like, when I talk, I'm trying to sort of go a little bit with what the room is giving me.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:27

And so it sort of always pulls me back into the now, where I think if I was.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:31

I'm always amazed.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:33

And I think it's probably why I never toured more or really hit the road, like, really, really hard, like a lot of my friends did.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:39

I just can't do the monotony thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:41

Like, I'm not good at, like.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:43

I heard a great.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:44

I'm a big Arsenal fan.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:46

It's a soccer football team, if you will, in London, and there's a guy named Dennis Burgkamp who's, like, a legend there, and he's.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:52

He's from the Netherlands, but they were talking about his practicing, and he's He's.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:56

You know, he's got a statue outside the stadium.

Dave Barnes: 00:17:58

He's like, that guy, you know, he's like one of the greats.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:01

And they were just about him practicing, and they're like, you know, he would go do the same shot 75 times after practice is done.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:08

Everybody's in there, showered and driving home, and he's still in the field, just trying to get the curl right on this direct kick or indirect, whatever.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:16

And it's like that.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:17

I don't have that.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:18

That's not built into my thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:20

And so I think for me, I'm kind of like, I love spontaneity.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:22

I love kind of like, where's this gonna go?

Dave Barnes: 00:18:24

The minute something gets too monotonous, I immediately disengage.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:28

And so I think one of the things about, like, my friends who do it a lot, it's like, I remember talking to my friends where he's like, his whole show is on a metronome, which means, like, even when he's talking, there's a click in his ear for the tempo of the next song, and he knows that I've got 20 clicks before the song starts.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:45

So I gotta say just enough, and I know what I'm gonna say, and it's well rehearsed, and that's amazing.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:48

And a lot of big tours do that because you're on the grid.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:51

Like.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:52

Yeah, you gotta do it the bit.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:53

You got 10 people behind you, they're looking at you going, like, we need to know exactly when the downbeat is.

Dave Barnes: 00:18:59

So you can't just kind of riff, you know, you can't kind of go, like, and then turn around and go, go.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:02

Because if you do that every song, the set starts to get a little.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:05

Everybody's just kind of sitting there waiting.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:07

Yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:07

Clunky.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:08

But I think for me, that's what I like the most, is just sort of this feeling of like, where's this gonna go if somebody laughs weird?

Dave Barnes: 00:19:13

Oh, my gosh.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:14

Okay.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:14

Make a joke.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:15

And now we're off, and we're having fun, and we're talking, and then here's a song.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:17

And so I think for me, it sort of keeps me in the moment.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:21

It keeps it from feeling like a job.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:23

It keeps it feeling like every night is its own experience that has a unique flavor and who knows where the night can go?

Dave Barnes: 00:19:29

And so it helps it feeling not quite as jobby.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:33

You know, it's like, no, remember Knoxville?

Dave Barnes: 00:19:36

Last time?

Dave Barnes: 00:19:36

That guy.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:36

And then we did the thing I tripped walking out and.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:39

Oh, my gosh.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:39

That was so fun because then my drummer laughed, and we laughed about that on stage, you know, and it feels like you guys are getting something unique, and I'm getting something unique, and it keeps me really interested that way, you know?

Steve Campbell: 00:19:50

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:19:51

So I'll be the guy in the crowd the next time you trip where it's, like, fake.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:54

Fake.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:55

That's, you know, it's not fake.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:56

You stand up, look at me, you just face the crowd.

Dave Barnes: 00:19:59

This is inauthentic.

Dave Barnes: 00:20:01

I've been paying for something that's manufactured.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:04

I've done presentations, you know, and you find lines that deliver the timing, the execution.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:09

And I, I.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:10

You know, the one thing that I messaged you about is I don't think even when I started podcasting, I mean, I went to school to be a social studies teacher, and, you know, now I've been in business for 12 years and started podcasting four years ago with my co host, which is one.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:24

One, you know, monster in and of itself, having another human being that you have to read each other.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:29

But then I started this show a year and a half ago and have 45 episodes with, you know, people from the NFL, Peloton musicians, and, you know, you have this human.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:39

And what one thing you guys talked about on the show is, like, you.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:42

I don't think people realize how challenging podcasting is, but that.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:46

How you can also, like, when I hear you say, like, playing a show and thinking about Thai food, you can become so.

Steve Campbell: 00:20:52

I don't say good at something, but so rehearsed that your brain can do simultaneously other things because you're not really in the moment, even podcasting, like, you can turn your mic on and, you know, go through your bit and, like, have a conversation, but there's also this, like, process of, like, really being mindful about one thing you said on your show, which is, like, I've had to learn as a host when to interject because my brain does go a mile a minute.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:16

Somebody's talking.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:17

It's like, we could talk about that, and we could talk about this, and, like, this will change somebody's life.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:20

And sometimes it's just, like, make content you want to enjoy.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:24

Yeah, but the one thing that I was thinking about that's funny, like, different from the world of sports, you were talking about your, you know, soccer hero you look to and how he did 75 shots after practice.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:32

And my brain's stupid.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:33

I'm thinking about, like, what if that was, like, all of us in our real jobs, like, sending 75 drafted emails, like, just practicing, you know, because you, because you didn't do it very well.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:44

It's like, hey, Dave, it's too much.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:46

Hi Dave, wait.

Steve Campbell: 00:21:47

Sup Dave?

Dave Barnes: 00:21:48

One of the best reprimands I've ever gotten that really changed.

Dave Barnes: 00:21:52

This is really small but true because I've got this in me is I sent an email early days of my career.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:00

Early, early, early days.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:02

And, and you know, like I said, I'm pretty one track minded.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:05

I'm pretty like pit bullish when I sort of make a decision, which is sometimes great and sometimes really frustrating.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:11

But there was a girlfriend of mine who went to a school and they wanted to have me come play.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:16

And so she had reached out and she's like, hey, like, you know, let me know what it costs.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:20

We'd love to have you do this thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:21

And so, but she asked like, then she had a second paragraph that was like, hey, and how's this going and how's your family and whatever, whatever, whatever, you know, because we were friends sense.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:30

So then I email her back and I just said like, you know, whatever.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:34

Sounds great, would love to play.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:35

This is kind of what I'm thinking.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:36

What dates are you thinking?

Dave Barnes: 00:22:37

And she emailed back and was like, thanks so much for asking.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:40

I'm great too.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:41

Here's what's going on.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:42

And I was like, oh my God, I'm such an idiot because I mean I just gotten straight.

Steve Campbell: 00:22:45

Seems high maintenance.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:46

Yeah, she did.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:47

Yeah, we didn't, there's healing.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:49

We didn't really continue a friendship after that.

Steve Campbell: 00:22:51

That's on her.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:51

Yeah, that's on her.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:52

But it was funny because, you know, I had to learn like, oh yeah, like, like there's bedside manner to things.

Dave Barnes: 00:22:58

There's like, you know, there's a way to.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:00

So I could have used probably 50 drafts in my emails early even now I have to like, I'll sort of get my point out.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:07

And I'm like, all right, now back up.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:09

Let's, let's be empathetic and be a human now where it's not just like.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:12

Now we have, now we have AI for that.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:14

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:15

Hey, I'm, I'm really bad computer at writing as a human being, so could you add as many emojis empathy throughout this email that was like Dave, look forward to recording.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:25

And now it's actually a 10, 000.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:27

Word email over expressing excited about your musical offerings.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:31

And then we get to recount the, you know.

Dave Barnes: 00:23:33

Yeah, I, I, that's, I think that.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:36

That raises a great let's talk about it.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:40

How do you recognize authenticity today?

Steve Campbell: 00:23:42

And I think whether you're a musician, you know, you.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:45

In your world, you have fans that come to see you, and maybe they wait outside or they want to see you.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:50

So there's the balancing act between, like, I' privileged to be able to be a musician and play a show.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:56

And, like, to me, in this moment, I'm the world to this people.

Steve Campbell: 00:23:59

So how much of myself do I give away versus, like, I'm also tired.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:03

But then, just like, in your world, doing podcasting and interviewing people from, you know, I saw Chris Kirkpatrick on there.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:10

I saw Shane and Shane.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:11

I saw a lot of people that I was like, man, I love these people.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:14

You.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:15

You also, through podcasting, get very real with people when you interview them.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:20

And what has shocked me the most is how, like, you said your second song in a set.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:24

It's usually about 15 minutes into a podcast where my face gets a little less red.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:29

I start to settle in, and I'm like, all right, I kind of belong here in this conversation.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:33

And then there's a sweetness to it where I'm like, man, Dave Barnes is a human being, just like me.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:39

And I realized, like, I had appreciated him.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:41

I looked up to him as an Arsenal fan or in basketball or in football.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:45

And then we get into it, and it's like, man, this guy's got insecurities or this girl's got insecurities, just like I do, and, like, struggles.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:51

And it's like, more so for me, like, all right, Lord, how do I.

Steve Campbell: 00:24:55

How do I bring to everyday people real conversations with people we all look up to that are struggling as dads and as moms?

Steve Campbell: 00:25:02

And I think the problem is, like, recognizing what's real today with social media and AI creation and videos, where it's like, 15 years ago, if you saw a reel, you'd be like, man, that person spent three hours on lighting and on words.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:16

And now it's like, no.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:17

They actually today just put into AI software and said, make this video.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:21

And it's gotten, like, even in my world, man, I have people that reach out to me from Pakistan and Siberia that are like, Mr.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:28

Steve, I would love to make your podcast famous.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:32

For $34 a month, I can promote your show.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:35

And then, like, I've had people on and other guests, and, like, you see things they post, and it's like, 60,000 hearts.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:42

And you're like, dude, what's the deal?

Steve Campbell: 00:25:44

How did you.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:45

All you said was like, turn the page.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:48

And, like, all these people liked it.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:50

And it's like, well, I pay for Distribution.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:52

I pay for people to like it.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:54

And then, like, the comments is even trippier to me that these are.

Steve Campbell: 00:25:57

Are these real people that are like, wow, Dave, this is so good.

Steve Campbell: 00:26:00

And it's like, is that a bot?

Steve Campbell: 00:26:02

So, like, even just in your world, like, how do you recognize authenticity?

Steve Campbell: 00:26:07

And is there anything that, like, you've learned about how to spot things or just guard yourself from?

Steve Campbell: 00:26:13

I don't know what you see every day on your phone or scrolling through social media.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:18

Yeah, you know, I think we.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:19

We have to remember that we live a real life as a real human.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:24

And so what we put up or sort of make people believe about ourselves or the success you're actually having is great, whatever the level that is, or how much of it is manufactured or not.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:34

But at the end of the day, you know, you have this life you're living.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:37

You.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:38

You.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:38

You potentially have a spouse, you have kids.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:40

And so that's really what people are gonna.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:44

That's really what you're dealing in, is the real human existence.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:47

Like, how is my relationship with my wife?

Dave Barnes: 00:26:49

How is my relationship with my kids?

Dave Barnes: 00:26:51

How's my relationship with my dear friends?

Dave Barnes: 00:26:53

How's my relationship with my church?

Dave Barnes: 00:26:54

How is my.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:55

These things that.

Dave Barnes: 00:26:56

That actually have value, that actually have, like, real, I would argue, kingdom value as opposed to the fake kingdom stuff.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:03

And so I think, you know, keeping a sort of, like, eye on how those things are going, you know, is sort of like, to me, always been paramount as opposed to the stuff that feels great or, you know, a song really connects or a show goes really well, or you sell out a show or whatever, and those things are great.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:24

But that's not real stuff.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:26

You know, that's not stuff that you.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:27

That you take with you or that you leave behind was probably the better way to say it, you know, and, And.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:35

And so, you know, and I think, too, there's a quote.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:37

It sort of deals with the question you're asking, but I say a lot.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:40

It's one of my favorite quotes.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:42

Whenever we come together sharing our strengths, it breeds competition.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:45

But whenever we come together sharing our weaknesses, it breeds community.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:48

And so I think if you're looking for authenticity, it's usually surrounded by people.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:53

You.

Dave Barnes: 00:27:54

You'll find that people that are authentic tend to have communities around them because that's how authenticity usually works.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:01

And I think the stuff that's not really authentic, you'll sniff it out pretty quickly because there's not people around it, you know, there's.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:07

It's either cults of personality, which is not real.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:09

Person, you know, real community or it's people faking it, you know, and I think that stuff tends to get figured out pretty quickly and.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:17

Or when it's out of, you know, when it's out of fashion, that tends to go away.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:23

So even if it is sort of working in a way, if it's not real, you know, it tends to.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:28

As the, as the, you know, waves of culture shift.

Dave Barnes: 00:28:32

So, so goes those people, you know.

Steve Campbell: 00:28:35

Well, how about for you and you and Annie?

Steve Campbell: 00:28:37

Because obviously with your life being in the spotlight, I think there's a lot of people.

Steve Campbell: 00:28:41

When I look at the demographics of my listeners, I basically built this podcast to encourage myself.

Steve Campbell: 00:28:46

And I've said that since I started that there was the weight of fatherhood, the weight of, you know, what I do on a day to day being a husband and feeling like my heart is to encourage people.

Steve Campbell: 00:28:55

And it's, you know, I'm the person that the Lord puts somebody in my heart and I text him and I'm like, dave, thinking of you today, praying for you.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:01

And I'm usually the one doing that.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:03

And like, it's nice when you hear it back, but I know that's the heart the Lord's given me.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:06

And sometimes you just feel the weightiness of all of these roles that you're just like, man, am I even good at any of this stuff?

Steve Campbell: 00:29:12

And so I thought, you know what, there's got to be other people that also feel this way.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:16

And so this show was more therapy for me, but to like interview people and talk to them about, you know, their shortcomings and what they're learning.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:24

And I think what's interesting is you say like, community and real community.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:27

I think there's so many people that are in their 30s and 40s that desire authentic community but don't always know where to find it.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:34

And maybe they have it seasonally or, you know, through their kids, sports or whatever.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:39

But for somebody like you and with Annie, because, because you're a recording artist, people know your face.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:44

Is it easier or harder to find community for you?

Steve Campbell: 00:29:47

And is there like anything that's helpful helped?

Steve Campbell: 00:29:49

Because when you're also a couple, like, you gotta jive with the other couple.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:53

I don't know if you've ever had an experience where like your wife really connects with the wife and then the husband is like, I hope we don't ever see each other again.

Steve Campbell: 00:29:59

Like, but you don't want to say that out loud because it's really appropriate.

Steve Campbell: 00:30:02

But like, I love this idea of finding community and I Think there's people that would raise their hand and say, I would love to have other humans that I could have, like, real life with.

Steve Campbell: 00:30:10

Is there anything that's been challenging to you, being in the spotlight or.

Steve Campbell: 00:30:14

Or you and Annie about, like, choosing who you allow access into, you and your family?

Dave Barnes: 00:30:20

You know, it's funny.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:21

Dave Barnes: 00:30:24

I think.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:25

Well, it's probably a few things.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:28

One, I think I have always really fought hard against celebrity.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:34

I've never been successful enough to really have to deal with that.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:37

And on a mass level, I mean, I have my versions of it, but I just, you know, I think I am so one of it.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:46

Some of it is natural.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:47

I think I'm just a really normal guy.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:51

Like, I really mean that.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:52

Like, I don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:53

You know, I have some talents and things that are really fun, but I'm.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:58

I don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:30:59

I don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:02

It makes me so uncomfortable when people are uncomfortable around me.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:05

And so I usually try to make people feel comfortable.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:10

Like, I want.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:10

I want to be personable.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:11

I don't ever want.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:13

I told somebody, like, the first interview I ever did as a musician that my goal was to try to be the Everyman.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:22

I just don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:23

I've never had any interest.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:24

In my darkest hours, I have extreme interest in being really cool and, like, the coolest guy in the room.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:30

But I think in.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:31

In, you know, in my sort of waking, normal hours, I'm like, I just really want.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:37

I just really want to be personable and kind and easy to talk to.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:41

That's my hope, you know?

Dave Barnes: 00:31:43

And so I.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:44

You know, again, I've never had the kind of fame where that's really been a struggle, but I think even in the moments where that does sort of raise its hand, I'm like, I kind of want to be the guy that when people leave, they're like, he was, like, really normal, sort of underwhelmed, you know, like, in a really wonderful way.

Dave Barnes: 00:31:59

Not, like, everything he said was so profound.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:02

We're like.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:03

We laughed the entire time, which maybe those things happen, I don't know.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:07

But I think for me, some of it is natural and that I just really.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:10

I love people.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:11

I'm extremely extroverted.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:14

You know, maybe a good way to say is, I'm gifted with a lot of things that kill fame.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:18

You know, I've been gifted with a lot of things that sort of cure the fame bug, which is, I actually really like people.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:25

I actually really love talking to people.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:27

I like people feeling comfortable when they're around me.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:31

And I think I Know I smell my own.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:33

You know what?

Dave Barnes: 00:32:33

Enough to know, like, this is going to be the shortest dig you've ever had on trying to unearth some amazing thing about me.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:39

Because you're going to realize in the first two shovel loads, like, oh, this is just like, all the dirt everywhere else.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:45

There's no dinosaur bones here.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:47

It's just going to be more what we find in everybody else.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:50

And so I think that's some of it.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:51

And then two, I think I really try to live a life that's extremely wide open and available.

Dave Barnes: 00:32:58

And, you know.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:00

Yeah, it's like.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:01

It's funny to me because, like, every now and then I'll be talking to a dad at our school, and I know all of them really well that'll say, like, dude, my friend sent me a video of yours the other day, and it really made me laugh hard.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:11

And I can see in that moment, they're like, oh, yeah, you, like, do this thing?

Dave Barnes: 00:33:14

And I'm like, oh, yeah, I do that thing, I guess.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:16

And they're like, ah.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:17

And then we talk about something else or whatever.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:18

We talk about that, Whatever.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:19

But it's fun because I like that.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:21

I like that people every now and then go like, hey, like, I know you do music.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:24

And I just want to say it out loud.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:25

Like, the show, we went.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:26

The show.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:26

It was good.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:27

I'm like, oh, that's great.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:27

Okay.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:28

And it's not like, dave, I don't want to bother you.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:30

I know you're with your children.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:31

I'm like, you know, that's for my friends, especially in our community.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:34

And so, you know, even as we picked our.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:37

The church that we went to back in the day, some of it for me was knowing, like, these people don't have a clue what I do.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:43

I had a woman one time.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:44

It was one of my favorite interactions my adult life.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:46

This sort of elderly woman walked up and.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:48

And I said, so, Dave, what is it?

Dave Barnes: 00:33:51

Tell me.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:51

I was ushering at the church, you know, and she said, so, Dave, tell me about you.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:56

Like, what are you doing?

Dave Barnes: 00:33:57

I was like, oh, I do music.

Dave Barnes: 00:33:58

And she's like, oh, my gosh, how's it going?

Dave Barnes: 00:33:59

And I was like, it's going pretty well.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:01

And she's like, good for you.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:03

And I was like, I love that so much.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:06

You know, instead of, you know, being somewhere to church where people like, oh, my God, they're getting quiet and they're sort of looking, and they're like, oh, my God, can I.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:13

Can we just get a picture?

Dave Barnes: 00:34:13

Which is fine.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:14

I love that.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:15

But I think, you know, in a church.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:16

Come on.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:17

Is that.

Dave Barnes: 00:34:18

Is that.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:18

Is that hard for you, though, balancing?

Steve Campbell: 00:34:21

I remember one time my brother got invited to SNL because he had won a skit where he acted as Chris Farley, and I don't know what you're in.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:31

So they invited him out to snl, and he met one of the cast members that he had thought was hysterical until he actually, like, met him, met him and was like, absolutely not.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:41

He used.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:42

He used a strong word, but he was like, that guy is not good.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:45

And, like, I wonder if that's the idolization that a lot of us have, where you look to people that make you laugh or you watch their videos or you watch them in sports, and it's.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:56

It's almost like this weird.

Steve Campbell: 00:34:58

Like, if only I could live a day in their shoes or meet them someday or whatever.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:01

And then you can idolize them to the point that when you meet them, you're almost disappointed because they're not making you laugh the entire time.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:08

You know, where they're not carrying this weight, or, like, you're beating your kid as you say hello to them, and you're like, oh, you're a real dad like me.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:14

So, like, how do you also balance the expectations of.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:18

You actually do have real fans, which is different than a friend or a dad at the bus stop who's like, are you.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:24

Hey, have you ever played a guitar?

Steve Campbell: 00:35:25

Like, are you that guy, you know, versus, like, oh, my gosh, you're tattooed on my.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:29

My rib cage, and you're like, okay, wow.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:32

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:33

Like, how is that balancing.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:35

When you do meet somebody who's paid money to come see you and they want you to come to their wedding or do whatever, Like.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:40

Like, how.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:41

How do you stay real as Dave, but then also bridge that gap to, hey, I appreciate you, but, like, gotta stop right here.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:48

Like, this is going too far.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:49

Like, is that.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:50

Has that ever been.

Steve Campbell: 00:35:51

Has that ever been an issue for you?

Dave Barnes: 00:35:53

I mean, not.

Dave Barnes: 00:35:54

You know, it's what everybody says.

Dave Barnes: 00:35:56

The only time it ever gets weird, and it never does.

Dave Barnes: 00:35:58

I mean, this has happened three times in my.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:00

In my life.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:01

I'm not lying.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:01

It never happens to me, is when people demand something that's just, like, that's tricky.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:06

You know, when you catch somebody in a moment where they're kind of like, hey, take a picture.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:09

Come here.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:10

And I'm like, okay, that's the.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:11

This is the only time you're gonna feel some energy for me, because it's like, I'm not your lackey.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:15

You know, like, I will take a hundred pictures with you, and we will laugh, and I'm very personable.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:21

But the demand thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:22

And that's what I see with a lot of my celebrity, like, real celebrity friends.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:25

It's like, that is tough when people kind of come in and they're like, hey, come here and do this.

Steve Campbell: 00:36:31

Do it, clown.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:32

Yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:33

Or like, hey, sing something.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:34

And they start the video, like, wait, hold on.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:36

You know Walmart?

Dave Barnes: 00:36:38

Yeah, that's right.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:39

How'd you get into my house?

Dave Barnes: 00:36:40

House?

Dave Barnes: 00:36:41

So I think, like, you know, again, it never happens.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:44

Dave Barnes: 00:36:45

I tell.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:45

And I mean this.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:46

This sounds insincere, I think, in some ways, but I really mean this.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:49

I have the greatest listeners.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:53

I just.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:53

They.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:54

I don't know how I lucked out with such wonderfully normal people.

Dave Barnes: 00:36:59

I just.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:00

I never have weird interactions.

Steve Campbell: 00:37:01

Like, it's just like, your manager vets all of them.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:04

It does.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:04

He does.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:04

And these.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:05

Put the other down.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:06

But you know what I mean?

Dave Barnes: 00:37:07

It's like.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:08

It's.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:08

It's just.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:09

I don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:09

I don't know if it's just like, calls to, like.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:11

And they see me and they're like, this guy just seems like a really normal guy, and I'm, like, a pretty normal guy, and I like his music, but I just don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:18

I do not have interactions with people where I ever have to be like, this is weird.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:22

Or, like, grab the kids and go, I'll handle this one.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:24

You know, it's like, that just never happens.

Steve Campbell: 00:37:27

So you've never had a show where, like, you finished and walked outside and everyone was goth, and it just, like, really, like, yeah, like, how'd you guys all become.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:34

We need some of your blood.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:35

And you're like, that feels a little intense.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:40

Hold my wife.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:41

Hold my.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:41

Kiss my wife.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:42

And I'm like, yeah, maybe too much.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:45

Yeah, no, it's.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:46

It's just not.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:47

You know, I think you have to be sort of a certain level of celebrity for people to really.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:52

You know what I think some of it is?

Dave Barnes: 00:37:53

This is another thought for you in that space, I think.

Dave Barnes: 00:37:57

Extreme talent, giftedness, whatever you want to call it.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:03

I think this applies to LeBron.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:05

You know, you could say this about Ed Sheeran, you know, and it's not.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:10

I'm not just saying that they.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:11

They're like the goats.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:12

I'm just saying anybody that really has been given a really substantial gift, it reminds us of the divine.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:20

So when we see it, it transports us.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:23

When we hear it, it transports us, and it feels divine.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:27

We are out of ourselves, we're.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:29

We feel emotions that aren't everyday emotions, these surge of things.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:34

It could be for me, watching some guy play soccer.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:38

And every time he.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:39

Every touch is perfect in his creativity.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:41

And I just feel I'm out of my.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:43

I'm out of myself.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:44

I'm having a moment of like slight teleportation to a place, you know.

Dave Barnes: 00:38:49

And so I think what happens with celebrity is we assign them these divine places, giftings, gift sets, like, and so we, we like.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:03

And when you feel that way, you want more of it because it's amazing, that feeling.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:07

And so I think what happens is we can kind of approach these people and sort of go like, hey, like, you gotta make us feel this way because you can make us feel that way.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:16

And I think like, that's where a lot of problems start.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:19

And I feel for people who have those kind of giftings and gift sets because it's like, you know, it's.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:25

That's.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:26

That's where your questions are.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:27

Especially point is, is that sort of gift set group of that jet set of people where it's like, when you really are that good at something that people are like, no, you don't have a choice.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:38

You have to give us this, you know.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:40

But what we really are warning is God in that moment, which sounds crazy, but it's true.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:44

Like, we want that divine feeling that.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:47

That out of body, that sort of weird, like, existential moment where it's like, I don't feel the weight of myself.

Dave Barnes: 00:39:56

I'm so transfixed on this thing that feels so unique and singular that that's what I want.

Dave Barnes: 00:40:01

And it's like, those are great.

Dave Barnes: 00:40:03

That's why we all love these things, why we love music, why we love sports, why we love movies, why we love.

Dave Barnes: 00:40:07

Name it.

Dave Barnes: 00:40:07

But it's unfair to go to those people and then say be divine, you know, because they aren't, you know, I mean, we are and that we're eternal, but we're not divine in that way, you know.

Dave Barnes: 00:40:21

So I think that's where the breakdown can happen, you know, is where we.

Dave Barnes: 00:40:24

We misappropriate these giftings and, and expect these things from people that are at best just conduits for something, you know, that is not of themselves.

Steve Campbell: 00:40:35

Well, I think it's hard today too, because you think about 20 years ago, we didn't have.

Steve Campbell: 00:40:39

Every time you open up your Instagram, you know, Dave Barnes or LeBron, like doing a selfie, walking around, making a video, and it's like you feel super connected to people, but you realize, like, you're not that close to them, but it feels that way.

Steve Campbell: 00:40:51

And when you work with people that love content development, they're like, find.

Steve Campbell: 00:40:55

Find ways to become really real to people.

Steve Campbell: 00:40:57

Post pictures of your kids.

Steve Campbell: 00:40:59

Do a selfie at Kroger.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:00

Like, walk around.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:01

Also have the.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:02

The curated stuff.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:03

And so maybe there's also just this feeling of, you know, as fans or of sports or of music.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:10

People feeling like, man, I feel like I know Dave.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:13

That's it.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:14

That's a lot of it.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:14

I feel like if we.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:15

If we met Starbucks or.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:16

It's like, I taught.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:17

It's like, I told Ben, Ben's like, dude, what are you gonna do when you talk to Dave?

Steve Campbell: 00:41:20

I was like, well, here's the reality, Ben.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:21

We're gonna become best friends, and he's gonna ask me to come hang out.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:25

We'Re gonna meet up with the Joker.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:26

We'Re gonna record an album, and it's gonna be just life, full circle.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:30

That's.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:31

That's how God works.

Steve Campbell: 00:41:32

Works, bud.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:32

Which, you know, it really is.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:34

It's a compliment because I think, like, one of my dear friends, years ago, when I started playing music, he's an extremely gifted singer, songwriter, and he was telling me, I wrote it down, and I still remember this quote.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:45

He said, my favorite bands are the ones that after you watch them play, you want to go get dinner with them.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:49

And it sounds really so.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:50

Well, of course you do.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:51

They're famous.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:51

And it's like, no, I think it means that you just are like, I just want to, like, hang around.

Dave Barnes: 00:41:55

It just feels like we would be friends, you know, I think that's the compelling energy behind those.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:01

Those sentiments.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:02

And so it's like, for me, that's the best I can do is just hope that people, you know, hear me and enjoy me in a way that they go, God, just be fun to go get, like, lunch with him and.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:13

And chit chat, you know?

Dave Barnes: 00:42:15

I listen to this podcast called the Rest is History, and it's so geeky.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:18

But I.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:19

I literally was listening to one this morning, and I was like, I would just.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:22

Dave Barnes: 00:42:23

I like these guys.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:24

I just like them.

Steve Campbell: 00:42:24

Them.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:25

I just think they're fun, they're really knowledgeable, but they're just really great at what they do.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:30

And I'm like, I just love to go get dinner with these guys.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:32

I don't even know what we talk about.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:33

But, I mean, that's that thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:34

That's the thing, right?

Dave Barnes: 00:42:35

It's that thing where you, you know, I think there's.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:38

Because of social media.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:39

There's a hundred million of those now where, you know.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:43

And so I think the trick is, like, you said so well, you can really get duped into feeling like, oh, I know these people.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:48

Like, these are people that I know well.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:50

And because you listen to them talk so much and you get these little insights into who they are, and that's a tricky place to be because obviously you don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:42:58

And they may not even be like that, you know?

Dave Barnes: 00:43:00

And so we all live in this really weird world now where you're having to discern these really interesting feelings or connections that aren't real feelings or connections, you know?

Steve Campbell: 00:43:10

Well, and with me, because of what I do, like, coming from not a small town.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:14

I'm not like a small town kid.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:15

But people see the reels I put out of me and like, Kane, who's the Knoxville mayor, like, recording with him is kind of surreal.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:22

And they see these videos of him and I on a grid, and it's like, dude, how was Kane?

Steve Campbell: 00:43:26

And it's like, well, we did it virtually.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:28

It's not like I was in the ring with him, you know, and he was tombstoning me the entire time.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:32

And I was like, we're doing it, we're doing it.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:34

You know, Glenn.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:36

But, like, you have these moments.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:37

And I was laughing because, again, at the time when we're recording this, I was watching Hallmark with my wife, Life.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:44

And one of my first guests was Bradley Rose.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:46

He's one of the leading peloton coaches and was my first international guest.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:50

And I remember we were chatting on Instagram and I told him how much he meant to me, and he was like, thanks, mate.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:56

Or that was more Australia.

Steve Campbell: 00:43:59

Yeah, sorry, I missed that one.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:00

Sorry.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:01

But he came on and you have these moments where when you're familiar with Riverside, it says, like, Bradley Rose is in the.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:08

The waiting room, and you have these moments where you're like, been here before.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:12

I've been here before.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:13

Before.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:13

I've been here before.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:14

Let him in.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:15

Hello, Bradley.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:16

Top of the morning.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:16

I don't know why I just said that to you.

Dave Barnes: 00:44:18

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:18

You know, and he signs on and you have your little bit of banter before you record, and then you just, like, get into it in your.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:25

Your recording, and you're like, we're doing it, man.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:27

And so my wife and I are watching Hallmark and we turn on one royal holiday, and it's just like Bradley throughout, and I had this, like, weird connection to a Hallmark that I've never had, where I'm on the couch, I'M like, oh, Bradley.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:40

Like, after a line, and I'm like, crazy.

Dave Barnes: 00:44:41

That's so.

Dave Barnes: 00:44:42

Bradley.

Dave Barnes: 00:44:42

That was.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:43

That was a line in a movie.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:44

And my wife's like, what are you doing?

Steve Campbell: 00:44:46

I was like, I don't know, man.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:47

Life's fun.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:48

Like, I would have never imagined 15 years ago that you and I would be connecting, or Kane and I, when I was watching Raw as a kid.

Steve Campbell: 00:44:55

And it's just like, sometimes I had to tell you this funny story that my brother's Aussie musician and played at a.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:01

At a speedy fest up in upstate New York.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:03

And this was at the time that Brooke Hogan was, like, coming on the scene.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:06

Hulk.

Dave Barnes: 00:45:07

Yeah, I forgot about that.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:08

And it was a.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:09

It was a short run, and, you know, she was playing on stage as, like, the main headliner.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:13

And so I used to travel.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:15

I have two older brothers.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:16

I'm a baby.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:16

I used to travel with my middle brother all the time.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:19

And just so many fun stories, being on the road with him.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:21

And he's like, dude, you want to come, like, be behind the tent with me?

Steve Campbell: 00:45:24

And I was like, yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:25

Didn't know Hulk Hogan was going to be behind the tent with him.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:29

You know, brother, like, in his sleeves, right?

Steve Campbell: 00:45:31

He's freaking big.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:32

Bigger, like, than you can ever imagine.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:33

And this guy comes in, he's like, Hulkamania heavyset guy, rips his shirt off in front of Hulk.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:40

In his whole back is Hulk Hogan in red and yellow tattoo.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:44

Like, could you imagine if that was, like, everyday people having everyday experiences?

Steve Campbell: 00:45:47

Like, when you have a level of fame, like, you expect that, but could you just imagine the everyday guy?

Steve Campbell: 00:45:52

Like, you're an IT worker, and somebody runs up and it's like, Thomas, and it's like your picture.

Steve Campbell: 00:45:57

Like, the idea of fame in meeting people is.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:00

Is super surreal, because when you get to do it, I think sometimes with myself, like, you expect, like, okay, this episode's gonna take off.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:10

It's gonna do really well.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:11

Everyone's gonna give me so much feedback.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:13

And I had a conversation with the Lord the other day.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:15

I was like, man, Lord.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:15

I expected, you know, from that episode certain things to happen.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:19

Like, did I do it wrong?

Steve Campbell: 00:46:22

And he was like, well, you got to talk to him.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:25

And I have to, like, stop and be like.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:26

Like, that's true.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:29

Like, you know, I want the thing.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:31

Like, if you do a song, like, you want it to take off, but you got to write it.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:35

And for me, like, if I look at my last year and a half of my life and NFL vets and people that I Literally have no right being on camera with, if I think about it.

Steve Campbell: 00:46:44

I also, though, have to be careful that that doesn't become so awesome to me that the mundane becomes super boring, you know, and not that your kids or your wife are boring, but when you are, you know, doing a concert and your endorphins are going nuts and people are singing back to you, or you're making a podcast and you're vibing with a guest and you're like, you really are best friends, and then you get off and you go back to life outside of this office and you got to go meal prep, you got to go clean, you got to go do laundry.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:17

It's really easy to fall into, like.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:18

Like, I just want to talk to Kane again.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:20

Like, you know, like it's a drug.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:23

But it is in a way.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:24

And so, like, I don't think people really understand that balancing act of when you create music or you create movies, just not letting the actual blessings that God has given us in our spouses and our kids.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:36

And so I wanted to, in the last few minutes that we have with you, give you space to talk about the Dadville podcast because I think there are a lot of dads out there that are looking for community.

Steve Campbell: 00:47:44

And so while don't you just briefly talk about, you know, why the Dadville Podcast was started, you know, how far into it, and maybe just one of the coolest things you've learned doing this podcast with guests and with John that like, you never assume when you started this journey all these years later, let's pause to hear a word from our sponsor.

Steve Campbell: 00:48:03

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Steve Campbell: 00:48:07

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Steve Campbell: 00:48:12

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Steve Campbell: 00:48:14

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Steve Campbell: 00:48:20

They're going to expose news and media and headlines because there's no fluff and absolutely no sugar coating, just relevant topics that can empower you to get the most from your money in your life.

Steve Campbell: 00:48:30

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Dave Barnes: 00:48:35

You know, I'll say this really quickly, though, to your point about.

Dave Barnes: 00:48:38

About the real world versus these other worlds we all live in.

Dave Barnes: 00:48:42

I think that's the thing.

Dave Barnes: 00:48:43

I don't know why we don't talk about that more.

Dave Barnes: 00:48:45

And we do on Dadville.

Dave Barnes: 00:48:46

We actually try to talk about this a lot, but, like, so much of life as a parent is like, really Tough and sort of boring and annoying and frustrating and mind numbing.

Dave Barnes: 00:48:59

You know, I feel like this time of the year for Andy and I laugh.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:03

Like it's just really hard.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:04

Like our kids don't have sports.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:06

And it's not like we're like a huge sports family but.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:08

But they're all home right after school and you know, it gets dark at 4:30 and so.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:15

And then you know, you're just kind of going.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:16

And everybody's kind of.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:17

And it's too like we, we're in a weird.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:19

I assume you guys are too.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:20

We're in a weird cold snap right now.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:21

So it's like 22 degrees outside.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:24

So you can't.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:25

You, you know, the kids don't really want to go outside and like run around and so you're just kind of on top of each other all day.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:30

And Annie and I'll laugh because we'll find each other.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:32

Have snuck out.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:33

Like she'll be in a random room like, what are you doing?

Dave Barnes: 00:49:35

She's like, I just have to go.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:37

She's like reading a book.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:38

And I'm like, why are you reading a book in here?

Dave Barnes: 00:49:39

And she's like, she couldn't do it or she'll be like, where have you been for the last few minutes?

Dave Barnes: 00:49:43

Like, sorry, I was checking.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:45

You know, it's like you just find like.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:47

And nobody wants to talk about that.

Dave Barnes: 00:49:49

Like a lot of life, a lot of it is that it's like boring or it's like annoying now, you know.

Steve Campbell: 00:49:55

Dave, I want to tell you this.

Steve Campbell: 00:49:56

Before electricity came out, now you know why everyone died at 48.

Steve Campbell: 00:49:59

Oh, they were like, like, it wasn't typhoid.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:02

It wasn't typhoid.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:03

It was bubonic plague.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:04

It was just.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:05

It's dark at 4:00.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:06

I'm bored out of my mind.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:07

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:08

Call it quits.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:08

It's.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:09

It's been a good run.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:10

These 42 years have been a good run.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:12

I'm a.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:12

I'm a great granddad.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:13

I feel great.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:15

Yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:15

And so anyway, I think, I think one just to acknowledge that I think it's okay.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:19

We have to do a better job.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:20

I think as humans and his parents, I'll be more specific.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:23

And maybe his dads just being okay with like.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:26

It's just.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:27

It's weird.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:27

It's hard, it's.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:28

It's rough.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:28

It's a little boring.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:29

It's rough, right?

Dave Barnes: 00:50:30

And I think never has life tried to sell us more that like everything is bigger and better.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:35

And as John Mark Comer says, Up into the right.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:37

You know, we're all moving and we're getting better.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:38

We're better fit.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:39

And we.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:39

We have never had better relationships with our kids.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:41

And my wife and I are in great.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:43

It's like, great, man.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:44

But, like, that's not real.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:45

None of that's real.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:45

Because so much of life is 4:17 on a Tuesday afternoon and the sun is setting and you're like, what are we going to do for the next three hours?

Dave Barnes: 00:50:53

You know, that's life.

Dave Barnes: 00:50:53

That's.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:54

But even.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:54

Even John.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:55

John's book that we are reading as a team, the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry.

Steve Campbell: 00:50:59

I've read that book and felt borderline shame.

Dave Barnes: 00:51:02

Oh, yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:03

With the way that John writes, who's like, you should just Sabbath with Jesus.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:07

And I'm like, I can't turn my brain off.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:10

Like, you know, like, I'm trying.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:13

And I think there's so much information out there about how to be the best, how to get better, how to improve.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:18

And it's like my phone, like, literally now is like, I think, trying to convince me to get off my phone.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:23

Because every fourth reel is like, stop scrolling.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:27

Micro, micro, micro scroll.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:29

And I'm like, do what?

Steve Campbell: 00:51:31

And then I'm like, like, screw this.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:32

Like, let's watch another video.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:33

And then again, it's like, stop scrolling and read books.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:36

And like, I think.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:37

I think you are, like, you're.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:39

You're trying to survive.

Dave Barnes: 00:51:41

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:41

And there's a.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:42

There's.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:42

There is definitely a huge difference between, like, I'm waving my hand, everybody look at me.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:46

I'm struggling so hard over here.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:47

And it's like, oh, care.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:50

I care.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:50

Like, so.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:51

You're so strong.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:52

Be brave.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:52

And it's like, actually, I just feel like there's a little part of me that, like, I don't know how to always turn on and activate.

Steve Campbell: 00:51:59

And there's so many resources out there.

Steve Campbell: 00:52:01

And John's telling me to not have my phone on me and sit in silence.

Steve Campbell: 00:52:05

And I'm like, I'm trying so hard.

Steve Campbell: 00:52:06

And, like, I just want to love Jesus.

Steve Campbell: 00:52:09

Like, at the end of the day, I just.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:10

Well, there's got to be.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:10

Like, we.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:11

We just have to be okay with that.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:13

We have to be okay with what you just said.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:14

So.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:14

Well, like, this idea that, like, I don't know what to do.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:17

I just don't know what to do in this moment.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:18

I have no clue.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:19

And I think God's like, great, that's okay.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:22

Like, let's talk about it.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:23

Let's pray about it.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:24

Just, like, sit and not know what to do for a little while.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:26

Like, it's not the end of the world.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:28

And so.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:28

But anyway, so your point to Dadville, it's been great.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:32

You know, we've done it for four years now.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:33

I think we have, like, 190 episodes or something now.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:37

And, you know, what you said so.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:39

Well, I.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:40

One of the things I enjoy about it the most is that I get to have conversations with people that I would really never intersect with in real life.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:47

And that is.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:48

And I don't just mean Bruce Hornsby or, you know, Matthew McConaughey or some of these kind of high levels, whatever.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:56

It's.

Dave Barnes: 00:52:56

It's, you know, authors that know a lot about kids and whatever.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:01

And so I think.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:02

Or specialists on brain, how your brain works, you know, and it's just like, this is so fun to sit and get to hear people that I just wouldn't ever get to do this with, you know, and hear what makes them tick or why they're so good at something.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:18

And it's just so many times that I'll hang up from one of the episodes, you know, interviewing somebody, and just think, God, that was really cool.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:24

Like, what a.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:25

What a cool thing to have intersected with that human for an hour.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:30

And, you know, maybe it'll happen again, maybe don't.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:33

And then it's even more fun when, like, some of those people end up becoming your friends or you keep in touch with them, and that stuff is just.

Steve Campbell: 00:53:38

You make albums with them.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:39

You know, you make albums with them at a.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:40

At a jump part.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:42

And so, you know, I think that that is something I really love.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:45

And then I think the other thing is, I'm really proud that John and I get to put.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:51

It's not every episode, Lord knows, because some of them are just really funny and ridiculous, but that, you know, every now and then we put stuff out in the world.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:57

I'm like, I.

Dave Barnes: 00:53:58

I would actually recommend that episode to Mike because that person had such great thoughts and great answers and that to me, and I know John feels the same way.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:08

That's really cool.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:09

That's when I'm like, okay, we're actually potentially, like, doing something here, as opposed to, you know, because some episodes are just really fun and silly and we laugh and whatever, but, you know, you have these moments where, like, oh, my God, that was incredibly poignant.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:20

Or, like, I learned something.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:21

And John, I've always said, like, our.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:23

Our main reason for doing it is exactly what you said.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:26

It's just extremely selfish.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:28

It's just the fact that we get to sit and talk to people, and.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:32

And we get to learn things, and then people are.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:34

You know, what comes of it is this hysterical byproduct of our selfishness.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:37

You know, just kind of like, well, we think that person's cool.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:40

And then people listen and go, we thought that was cool.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:42

And we're like, oh, good.

Dave Barnes: 00:54:44

But that wasn't really.

Steve Campbell: 00:54:47

Well, and I think when you.

Steve Campbell: 00:54:48

When you podcast, too, you know, like, you had said with Annie and with my wife stuff, Steph, too, it's like, you know, and she engages with an episode.

Steve Campbell: 00:54:54

She's, you know, trying to give me feedback.

Steve Campbell: 00:54:56

Like, hey, we're talking about being a parent on every episode.

Steve Campbell: 00:54:58

And it's kind of like, if Steph went on tour with me, every concert I did was like, hey, you keep playing the same set list every city you go to.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:05

It's like, well, that's kind of the gig.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:07

Like, yeah, there's a balance between.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:09

I want to be sensitive to the Holy spirit in this conversation right now and, like, what's on my heart and bringing it to it, because then that's when.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:15

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:15

Even if I've talked about parenting for five shows in a row, row, I have a random high school buddy that reaches out to me is like, dude, you wrecked me.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:21

And I'm like, where?

Steve Campbell: 00:55:22

What did I do?

Steve Campbell: 00:55:23

And it's like that episode you did on depression.

Dave Barnes: 00:55:25

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:25

I was crying, and you're just like, all right.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:27

Like, that is literally what this is about, and that's why you want to keep going.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:31

And so, you know, even just spending this time with you.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:34

And I think one of the things that I kind of struggle with, too, which is, like, how much do you share?

Steve Campbell: 00:55:39

Because when you have.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:40

Don't call it God's favor, but, like, when God opens.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:43

Blessings to talk to a Dave Barnes.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:44

Like, there are a handful of people that really love your music.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:47

Music.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:48

And first of all, I wanted to make sure we were actually going to record today.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:50

And what before I was like, hey, guys, I'm going on with Dave Barnes, and it's not your.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:54

I'm not doing it because I want them to be like, you are the man.

Steve Campbell: 00:55:57

But it's just like, dude, this is really cool, and I want you to enjoy this with me.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:00

And so, like, learning how to.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:03

Because I record episodes now weeks in advance.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:05

It's like being a Marvel cast member.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:07

Like, I know the people I've had on, and I don't want to tell anybody because, like, if it bombs or they email me later and are like, like, don't post that episode.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:15

I don't want to share certain things, but there's this, like, also feeling inside of, like, this is amazing.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:21

Like, I got to do this.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:22

And I.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:22

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:23

When I get done, Steph will be like, how did it go?

Steve Campbell: 00:56:25

And it's like, well, I want to tell you everything.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:27

Sit down.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:28

Sit down.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:28

And I'll go through word by word what we talked about.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:31

But it's also just like, my kids, when they come home from school, I'm like, it was good, but inside, I'm like, it was amazing.

Dave Barnes: 00:56:37

Yeah.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:38

And it brings life to you.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:39

So just even balancing, you know, my brother was a big Bruce Hornsby fan, but, like, you, you have these people that in your wildest dreams, you would have never imagined.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:48

And this is what Stephen on Day and I talked about.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:50

If I pass Stephen Day on the streets of Nashville, he might give me two minutes.

Steve Campbell: 00:56:54

You know, I'm not going to be like, dude, what's your one big thing right now?

Steve Campbell: 00:56:57

But he spent an hour with me, and we laughed.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:01

And, like, that's special to me.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:02

It's like a playlist that I'll forever have.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:05

But it's just, like, also balancing the people in my world and those that are champing me and those that love me, like, how much do I share with them?

Steve Campbell: 00:57:12

Before, I'm just, like, bragging, but it's more.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:15

I'm excited, you know, and, like, you want to share it all with them.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:18

And so there is this.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:19

When you podcast, there's people that are really close to you that give you feedback and they want things from you.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:23

But then there's also just this other world of people you're never going to meet that are like, you know, Dave, John, you guys changed my life as a dad.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:29

And so I want to encourage everybody, as I told you, we'd record for a half hour, and here we are 55 minutes in.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:34

So thank you for standing by.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:37

I think.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:37

I think if you are a dad, if you are a parent and you love.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:41

If you love banter, Dadville is a great show to get, you know, and that's what I think I appreciate is I felt a part of the conversation and I laughed with you guys, but then you also bring on these people that really do want to inspire you.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:53

I want people to go check out your show.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:55

I think it's incredible.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:56

I think you're doing great work.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:58

So I'm just super blessed.

Steve Campbell: 00:57:59

Blessed and fortunate that I had this time with you for just.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:03

I mean, how special you've been to my wife.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:04

And I and the videos that we've watched over the years at Christmas time and, you know, laughed with you and obviously we're going to be out seeing you at a show here soon.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:12

But, you know, is there any last for those in case this ever, you know, might be their last stop?

Steve Campbell: 00:58:17

They just came to hear you.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:18

Is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you want to leave people with before bringing episode to a close?

Dave Barnes: 00:58:23

I don't think so.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:24

I was gonna say if you say no, it's going to be super awkward.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:26

All right.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:27

Anyway, well, Dave Barnes, world changer.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:31

Been just.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:32

Just really great.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:33

And, you know, I'll have the show notes.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:34

Yeah, I'll have in the show notes date, you know, information so you can connect with him, follow him on Instagram if you need a good laugh in life.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:40

But, partner, this was a lot of fun.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:42

Wish you the best on Dadville moving forward and obviously with all the music too.

Dave Barnes: 00:58:46

Great.

Dave Barnes: 00:58:46

Yeah.

Dave Barnes: 00:58:47

Thanks, man.

Steve Campbell: 00:58:47

You got it, bud.

The One Big Thing with Steve Campbell

Episode 45

Performing to Parenthood: Dave Barnes Unplugged

Transcript

About the Podcast

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Steve Campbell