Episode 51
Addiction, Trauma & Transformation: Jeremy Graham's Story of Moving from Addict to Advocate
Today, we’re diving deep with Pastor Jeremy Graham of True Purpose Ministries to unpack one of the most misunderstood issues of our time: addiction. Jeremy shares his powerful journey from addiction to transformation, showing how healing goes far beyond behavior change—it starts from within.
We explore how unresolved trauma often fuels addiction, and why understanding that connection can be a game-changer. Addiction doesn't discriminate—it touches people of every background, whether it's drugs, alcohol, work, social media, food, or relationships. Even if you haven’t personally struggled with addiction, this episode sheds light on the universal ways we cope with pain.
Jeremy also speaks candidly about the traumatic experiences that shaped him, reminding survivors of molestation, rape, or other abuse that they are not alone—and that healing is possible.
This is more than a conversation about addiction; it’s a message of hope, empathy, and the power of transformation.
Key Takeaways:
- Addiction isn't picky; it can affect anyone, regardless of background or appearance.
- Trauma often leads to addiction, and recognizing this link is crucial for healing.
- Many people mistakenly assume addiction only affects those with visible signs or a 'typical' profile.
- The first step towards overcoming addiction is realizing that your life has become unmanageable.
- Community and support are vital; sharing your struggles can help break the cycle of addiction.
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Transcript
Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast where inspiration meets transformation.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Steve Campbell, and I'm excited to have you join me today.
Speaker A:I welcome guests from all walks of life to the show.
Speaker A:We're going to spend about 30 minutes getting into their story and sharing the One Big thing that they want to share with all of you that can help you move the forward in your life.
Speaker A:So thank you for being my guest in the One Big Thing and enjoy this episode.
Speaker B:If you looked at me, I did not look like an alcohol addict or a drug addict, not at all.
Speaker B:But of course I think it touches everybody.
Speaker B:And we've seen judges, we've seen lawyers, we've seen doctors, teachers.
Speaker B:I mean, all kinds of people that do not have the tattoos all over them, that do not dress in the, in the addiction genre.
Speaker B:But I tell you, they come from all different walks of life.
Speaker B:And one thing I have found out in all of my years of drugs and alcohol ministry is that it touches absolutely everybody.
Speaker B:A lot of times when I speak, I like to see a show of hands of who has, who has a family member or a friend that is addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:And literally everybody in the whole place raises their hand because somebody has been touched with drugs and alcohol.
Speaker C:Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker C:I'm so excited to have you on this episode today.
Speaker C:Got a good friend who I know locally here from church pastor Jeremy Graham, who's going to come on.
Speaker C:He has an amazing opportunity that he wants to talk about a ministry that he serves in, in our church.
Speaker C:And when I thought about, you know, who's somebody that I could have on that could have.
Speaker C:Not necessarily a controversial conversation, but something to illuminate the fact that when we think about things like addiction, I think sometimes we think of it as a stigma societally or only certain people deal with addiction.
Speaker C:And I wanted to have Jeremy on today to talk about how widespread addiction is share part of his story of overcoming addiction and now what he has learned kind of in his ministry helping people overcome addiction as well.
Speaker C:So, Jeremy, welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker C:Your family and friends, guys, welcome.
Speaker C:This is an interview style show where I have people like Jeremy on to spend 30, 40 minutes talking about the One Big thing that they've learned in their life that they want to share with you.
Speaker C:So, Jeremy, for those that don't know you, we've had fans of the show tracking along for the last few years.
Speaker C:What's a few things here at the beginning that you'd want people to know about?
Speaker B:You sure Man.
Speaker B:Well, first, thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
Speaker B:It's an honor.
Speaker B:I love doing podcasts, of course.
Speaker B:And I tell you, we have a podcast ourselves at True Purpose Ministries and I just enjoy it every time we do it, I tell you, I just, I just really like it.
Speaker B:My name is Jeremy Graham and the president and founder of True Purpose Ministries and we are a year long drug and alcohol ministry that is primarily situated in East Tennessee, but we have six campuses over East Tennessee going all the way from men's programs to pregnant women's programs where we house the women and children.
Speaker B:We also have a couples program.
Speaker B:So we're excited about what's going on with True Purpose and the lives that are being touched there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:In True Purpose I want you to speak to about, you know, here for a minute and kind of what it is and the evolution of it.
Speaker C:But I know when my wife and I had relocated from upstate New York over four years ago, finding a local church, church was really important to us.
Speaker C:And when you move to a new area and you don't know anybody, you have no family of no friends, you have to just go try different places and find where the Lord is calling you to.
Speaker C:And when we found Rio Revolution and Pastor Pacer and we came, I think one of the things that stood out to my wife Stephanie and I was that the people of the church were so eclectic in the way they look, where they came from, their, their upbringing, their incomes and you had people from all walks of life.
Speaker C:And one of the things that I noticed right away is that there was this group of people that were just sold out for the Lord.
Speaker C:But you could tell had been through some hard times.
Speaker C:And when I started to ask around, they said, yep, these guys are a part of True Purpose and it's an amazing ministry that I don't want to steal the thunder.
Speaker C:So how help people understand when we say True Purpose, you say six camp.
Speaker C:What is True Purpose in a nutshell?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So basically we're a year long program.
Speaker B:We honestly feel that it's going to take a lot longer to get somebody rehabilitated from drugs and alcohol because they've most likely had years and years and years of substance abuse.
Speaker B:And so what we see a lot in the world Today is the 28 Day Programs where you know, of course it's insurance driven.
Speaker B:What a lot of people don't realize about the 28 day program is because they started that program because that's all the insurance would pay for residential treatment.
Speaker B:And so they understand that once they get to that 28 days, they have to start moving them out to get them outside to start doing intensive outpatient treatment.
Speaker B:And so, of course, that steps them down with the insurance.
Speaker B:And so a lot of the models that we see is what I would call behavior modification models, where they basically just want to teach you how to behave differently.
Speaker B:They never want to change who you are.
Speaker B:They, they, they make no bones about it that basically you are an addict, you are an alcoholic, you will be this way for the rest of your life.
Speaker B:You just need to change your behavior.
Speaker B:So to me, that's kind of like telling a dog to now act like a cat without changing their inside, without changing.
Speaker B:Transformation.
Speaker B:Now what we are, we are a transformational ministry.
Speaker B:We of course, believe that the inside needs to change, the DNA on the inside needs to change.
Speaker B:And of course, I'm a pastor as well.
Speaker B:And that's how I came to get off drugs and alcohol was, of course, to give my heart to Jesus.
Speaker B:And he radically changed my life.
Speaker B:And so that's why I wanted to start True Purpose Ministries, because I wanted to give them the same hope that I did or that I had, that I experienced through the born again experience with Jesus.
Speaker B:And I tell you, it just absolutely changed my life from the inside out.
Speaker B:The root system inside of me was changed.
Speaker B:I used to be an addict, I used to be an alcoholic.
Speaker B:I was actually a slave to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:I was led by the, by the nostrils everywhere I went.
Speaker B:And I did things that I'm not, you know, happy about, that I'm definitely ashamed about.
Speaker B:But that was not me.
Speaker B:That was the.
Speaker B:That was being a slave to the drugs that was in my DNA.
Speaker B:And so when I came to know Jesus Christ, my personal savior, Second Corinthians, chapter 5 or 17 says, anyone who is in Christ, he is a new creation.
Speaker B:Old things have passed away and bold, all things have become new.
Speaker B:And I found that inside I didn't want to do drugs anymore.
Speaker B:I didn't want to be a slave anymore.
Speaker B:I started to realize that I was different on the inside, but that was what really helped me change the behavior on the outside.
Speaker B:And so basically true purpose is that transformational ministry that we give you a year to come to first experience Jesus Christ through the born again experience.
Speaker B:But then the whole year we're walking alongside of them, creating relationship.
Speaker B:I guess we could be classified as a buzzword that the federal, federal and state governments use as a therapeutic community.
Speaker B:That's exactly what we are.
Speaker B:We have housing to where they live with us for a full Year.
Speaker B:We walk with them for a full year, disciple them for a full year, have relationship, a community with them for a full year.
Speaker B:And ultimately, over that whole span of the year, the people just come out different.
Speaker B:It's kind of like, you know, a metamorphosis where we always see a caterpillar go into the cocoon, and he comes out a butterfly.
Speaker B:That's what we see at True Purpose.
Speaker B:We are a discipleship, ministry to turn caterpillars into butterflies.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker C:And I think if you've never struggled with addiction, I think sometimes if we close our eyes and we think of an addict, we might picture a homeless person or somebody who didn't have parents growing up, and they just went down the wrong path for you and your life, Jeremy.
Speaker C:I mean, what.
Speaker C:You know, and you don't have to get really deep into it, but what was home life like for you growing up?
Speaker C:Talk to me about the road to addiction, because I don't think anybody just wakes up one day and says, you know what?
Speaker C:Let's be addicted from now on.
Speaker C:I mean, was there certain things that you experienced as a kid or growing up that opened the door to addiction?
Speaker C:What was that like for you?
Speaker B:Yeah, you know.
Speaker B:No, I could never remember thinking as a child, you know what?
Speaker B:I want to grow up and be an addict.
Speaker B:I want to grow up and be an alcoholic.
Speaker B:I want to grow up being addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:I never thought that I had aspirations of being in the army.
Speaker B:I have aspirations of being some kind of a hero.
Speaker B:I mean, of course, every kid did.
Speaker B:But just like you alluded to, I did have some things, some past traumas earlier in my life to where I was molested by an older friend.
Speaker B:And, you know, that really set a course in my life that really just messed me up mentally.
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:It was a trauma that I experienced.
Speaker B:And so basically what I did is, as I got older, I really struggled with my identity.
Speaker B:Didn't struggle in homosexuality or anything like that, but I had a.
Speaker B:I had a chameleon type identity.
Speaker B:My dad was in the army, and he was a chaplain in the army, which is, of course a pastor in the army.
Speaker B:And so we would move around every four years, and so every four years we would pick up, and I would have to basically meet new friends and try to get into the in crowd.
Speaker B:And so that's what I mean by chameleon.
Speaker B:Literally every place that I went, I tried to adapt to my surroundings.
Speaker B:I tried to be the cool kid.
Speaker B:I tried to dress like everybody else dressed.
Speaker B:I did not have a personal identity for me.
Speaker B:And so everywhere I went, I was trying to be somebody else.
Speaker B:You know, one.
Speaker B:One minute I was trying to dress like black people.
Speaker B:One minute I was trying to dress this way.
Speaker B:One minute I was trying to be a prep.
Speaker B:I mean, I just.
Speaker B:I had all of those different identities trying to fit in.
Speaker B:And ultimately, when you're trying to fit in, you're trying to be this guy that you're not and trying to be other people, you're going to do whatever they're doing.
Speaker B:And that's how drugs and alcohol found me.
Speaker B:I started gravitating to the wrong people, and I started getting addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:And slowly but surely, I liked it.
Speaker B:Of course, when I first did it, I liked it.
Speaker B:I liked the way it made me feel.
Speaker B:I didn't have those thoughts anymore of myself and how I felt about myself.
Speaker B:It was kind of like the Superman effect.
Speaker B:Drugs and alcohol made me somebody who I always wanted to be.
Speaker B:It was kind of like that potion that I took that turned me into the prince that I thought I wanted to be.
Speaker B:And I started relying on that, and that started being a coping mechanism for me, and I lived that way.
Speaker B: know, eventually, in the year: Speaker B:After coming down off crystal meth and losing about $1,000 gambling, I was at rock bottom, and I gave my heart to him, and the rest is history.
Speaker C:Gosh.
Speaker C:Well, you know, and I didn't know too much of your backstory, too.
Speaker C:So whenever you hear that somebody's been molested, that is a trauma that, you know, if you've never experienced something like that, somebody you know will explain to you.
Speaker C:Those are things that, as a kid, you never ask for, Especially when you have an authority figure that does something to you, it does mess with you.
Speaker C:And I wonder, Jeremy, in your.
Speaker C:In your role with.
Speaker C:With True Purpose and what you've done over the years, do you find or is.
Speaker C:Have you discovered that trauma is in many ways kind of a leading indicator whether someone can.
Speaker C:Can dive into addiction?
Speaker C:And in your years of ministering to, you know what I've seen of True purpose?
Speaker C:Men, women, different ages, different socioeconomic backgrounds.
Speaker C:Addiction is one area that doesn't care.
Speaker C:Your race, your gender, what you believe.
Speaker C:It's something that can affect all of us.
Speaker C:But in your years of doing ministry, have you found that a lot of people like how.
Speaker C:How significant is trauma with addiction?
Speaker C:Do those things go hand in hand?
Speaker C:Do you see that a lot is that more common than I think most people realize?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's highly significant.
Speaker B:I think the federal statistic is around 85 to 87%.
Speaker B:I would say it's 99.9%.
Speaker B:You know, you've got to get the people to admit that something happened.
Speaker B:There are a lot.
Speaker B:And the reason I think that it would be 85% that the federal and the state see is because those are the people who admit it.
Speaker B:There are a lot of people that have stuff that's happened to them, but they will take it to their grave and they won't talk to anybody about it because they're so ashamed.
Speaker B:I would literally say 99%, man.
Speaker B:Trauma is something that we see every day, that people literally just does not know how to deal with trauma.
Speaker B:When trauma happens to an individual, there's a period of time that they're.
Speaker B:I call it your suke, which is your mind, your will and emotions.
Speaker B:Paul talks about it first Thessalonians, chapter 5.
Speaker B:But basically he talks about us being made up of three parts.
Speaker B:We're spirit, soul and body.
Speaker B:And when we talk about the soul, your soul is your mind, your emotions, and your will basically is, you know, who we are up here in the head.
Speaker B:And so what we understand is that when trauma happens, that suke is totally opened up.
Speaker B:It is opened up to ways to adapt on basically what has just happened to you.
Speaker B:There can be different realms of trauma.
Speaker B:There could be molestation, there could be rape, there could be abuse, there could be a divorce of a parent, there could be a car wreck, it could be a loss of a loved one.
Speaker B:I mean, there's so many different ways that people need to understand trauma.
Speaker B:And that's one way that we really try to combat the stigma, is that everybody needs to understand that everybody has been through trauma.
Speaker B:And some people just deal with it differently.
Speaker B:We always say it true purpose, that it's not what happened to you that made you like you are, it's how you reacted to what happened to you that made you like you are.
Speaker B:Some people, you know, they were.
Speaker B:You have two people side by side.
Speaker B:They were both molested at age 5.
Speaker B:One person went straight into drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:The other one became addicted to work.
Speaker B:And he was a Fortune 500 CEO, but he has major issues within himself.
Speaker B:But he just dove into work and that's his addiction.
Speaker B:There's just many, many ways that we can deal with coping mechanisms.
Speaker B:Not all the time drugs is that way.
Speaker B:But when drugs are so prevalent, and especially when the pharma pharmacy system, the pharmacia system, the big pharma is pushing medication for absolutely every ailment that you could possibly have.
Speaker B:Addiction is prevalent and it happens a lot.
Speaker B:One thing I try to tell people, there was one time I like to tell a story because it really brings it home.
Speaker B:There was a man that came into my office and he was the guy that had spent some time in juvenile, he had spent some time in prison and he had tattoos all over him, tattoos all over his face, all over his neck, all over his head.
Speaker B:He was that guy that when you saw him in Walmart, you're like, whoa.
Speaker B:You know, when he stay away from that guy, I mean he's, you know, he looks scary.
Speaker B:He came in and he sat down, he said, jeremy, I've got to get something off my chest.
Speaker B:And I said, what is it?
Speaker B:He said, when I was four years old, my mother's boyfriend held a knife to my throat while he raped me.
Speaker B:And as he came in and said that, he broke down and he cried.
Speaker B:And I saw a little child in that chair and he was literally just weeping and crying, but he felt so strong that he had to get that off his chest and he felt so much better after that.
Speaker B:But that was the trauma that he had been holding for years and years and years and years and years.
Speaker B:And so all the tattoos that he had, you know what those were saying?
Speaker B:Stay away from me, don't touch me.
Speaker B:Because he was identifying as that four year old child that had been raped with a knife being held to his throat.
Speaker B:And the tattoos was something to be able to show people, don't get around me, don't touch me.
Speaker B:And it was a coping mechanism of protecting himself to make sure that that never happened again.
Speaker B:He took on this identity of being a big bad guy, big rough guy that nobody wanted to mess with.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Because he didn't want to be messed with.
Speaker B:And so when he sat down though, I saw a teddy bear, a teddy bear kid that was sitting in front of me and he had just given what had happened to him up and he became a new man.
Speaker B:To my understanding, he's still clean today, still clean off drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:And we always say that drugs and alcohol is a fruit of the root.
Speaker B:There's something down deep is the reason why we do drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:A lot of people with the behavior modification rehabs, they say that drugs and alcohol is the.
Speaker B:I disagree.
Speaker B:There's a trauma back there that is causing the addiction that the people feel like they have to have a substance to be their plug to be able to get what they need.
Speaker B:And a lot of times they do it outside of God.
Speaker B:And that's what addiction is, is going outside of God to seek, to seek help and to seek relief from your trauma.
Speaker C:Well, and as you're talking, you know, when you do a podcast, usually you have a call to action at the end.
Speaker C:You know, if you've ever gone through trauma, reach out to somebody.
Speaker C:I want to pause right here because I, I got to think of the listener in my mind who you talked about somebody being molested or raped.
Speaker C:And I wonder how many in their car have never told somebody.
Speaker C:But you just telling that sent shivers up their spine that it brought them back to an age.
Speaker C:What would you say to the person who, it sounds like that gentleman when he acknowledged it to somebody else?
Speaker C:Tears were the reflection of deep rooted pain in admitting what had happened to him.
Speaker C:And that set him on the road to recovery through true purpose.
Speaker C:But what about the person who never told anybody what's happened to them, even their spouse?
Speaker C:You know, the shame of being raped or molested or having trauma as a kid.
Speaker C:What would you say?
Speaker C:Let's not wait for the end.
Speaker C:Just, just give us here at the beginning.
Speaker C:What would you say to somebody who's holding on to a deep seated trauma that they've never shared it with?
Speaker C:What would even be just an initial first step for somebody to take?
Speaker B:Well, you know, I would look at their life and look at what they're experiencing right now.
Speaker B:Are they a Christian?
Speaker B:Are they not a Christian?
Speaker B:If they're, if they are Christian, I would definitely look at maybe talking to a pastor or maybe a Christian counselor that of course is versed in trauma.
Speaker B:You know, I'll give a plug here, but Kara Logan, she's in Blount county.
Speaker B:She is a, just a great lady and she, but she has a great trauma counseling service.
Speaker B:She's an lpc.
Speaker B:She does great work and she has so many different methods to work you through the trauma.
Speaker B:She can cater to a Christian, but she can also cater to a non Christian.
Speaker B:It's whatever you feel.
Speaker B:But you know, I would definitely say they have to, if they want to get better and they want to stop seeing the cycle, whether it's addiction or whether it's broken relationships or whether it's divorces or whether it's whatever, you know, work, you know, being addicted to work, they need to stop that cycle and they need to talk to somebody and they need to reach out to somebody like Carol Lopez who is experiencing trauma to be able to talk to them about that.
Speaker B:And then what they will do is they will lead them through techniques to go all the way to the root of it to heal that trauma.
Speaker B:And then once the trauma is healed, they will give healthy coping mechanisms to deal with that trauma anytime that that comes up.
Speaker B:I kind of like to say that trauma is like a pink elephant in the room.
Speaker B:No matter where you go, no matter what room you go into, that pink elephant is always there.
Speaker B:And so it's like always there.
Speaker B:No matter what's going on, it's always there.
Speaker B:And then when anything ever goes awry in any kind of room that you're in, that pink elephant comes into play.
Speaker B:And that's what trauma is.
Speaker B:Trauma has got to be put into the compartment of your heart, compartment of your brain to say, yes, it happened.
Speaker B:We don't, we don't want to take away that it happened.
Speaker B:Okay, it happened.
Speaker B:You're going to have to deal with it.
Speaker B:You cannot take that away.
Speaker B:You got.
Speaker B:But once we identify and understand that it happened, we deal with it helpfully.
Speaker B:We allow the healing process to come into our heart with that trauma, and then we can put it in a right compartment and then, of course, help other people that this has happened to.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't know the latest statistics on molestation, rape, and all that kind of stuff, but guys, you know, we see trauma every day.
Speaker B:There's all kinds of different traumas.
Speaker B:And one thing that people battle is they feel like that what they experience, they're alone and that they're the only one that that happened to.
Speaker B:There is countless and countless and countless of individuals that this has happened to.
Speaker B:You're not alone, and you need to talk to somebody about it.
Speaker B:Me being a pastor, I would say, of course, the first step for me would be to, of course, look to Jesus.
Speaker B:Jesus is the healer.
Speaker B:He is the one that absolutely changed my life.
Speaker B:He is the one that has healed all that trauma in my life, and he will do it for anybody and everybody.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And as the host of the show, I've never shied away that, you know, Jesus is the center of my life.
Speaker C:But whether you've come from a life of faith or not, don't out.
Speaker C:And I think about that's right.
Speaker C:You know, I just had a, a friend of my wife who was on her episode and we talked about her battle through infertility for six, seven years.
Speaker C:And dude, we just cried trying to make sense of a dad with four kids talking to another woman my age who just has struggled to have children and trying to step in somebody's shoes and just Infertility, depression, addiction.
Speaker C:When you listen to podcasts, what do you, what do you want?
Speaker C:Some, some murder mystery stories that are juicy.
Speaker C:You want to get some, you know, self help that can motivate you to eat healthier.
Speaker C:But sometimes you just got to listen to conversations that you're like, how in the world did I end up on this episode today in that pink elephant in the room?
Speaker C:You know, my heart for this podcast, as the host, is there may be people that are struggling in your marriage, you might be struggling in your marriage with intimacy.
Speaker C:And it's because there's a trauma that you had as a child that you don't want to be touched.
Speaker C:And so you have a spouse, a husband, a wife who doesn't know why you don't want to be close to them.
Speaker C:And you've never acknowledged what happened to you.
Speaker C:And so you can, you can listen to all the podcasts and watch all the YouTube videos and get all the five things you need to do to turn your life around.
Speaker C:But if there's that pink elephant that you have never talked to somebody about, let this be the catalyst to reach out, as Jeremy said, to.
Speaker C:To somebody that is a safe space and has a background in this area.
Speaker C:And addiction is one of those things.
Speaker C:And you've mentioned it a few times here.
Speaker C:I think, again, if you've never struggled with addiction, we think crystal meth, we think some.
Speaker C:You're drinking at a bar every night, stumbling out of there.
Speaker C:But you talked about work.
Speaker C:Work can be an addiction.
Speaker C:And so when you're in your years of experience.
Speaker C:Jeremy, again, just to demystify, I think, how widespread spread addiction is, what are some areas, you know, of addiction for somebody listening or what are common things that you, you talked about work, you've talked about drugs and alcohol.
Speaker C:Are there other areas of addiction that people come through with true purpose or even that you've seen and celebrate recovery that people have acknowledged?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, there's addiction to porn.
Speaker B:Porn is one of the major things that we see that is basically widespread.
Speaker B:And we're not just talking about men.
Speaker B:We see women that are addicted to porn, too.
Speaker B:And a lot of times you can see a background of molestation has happened to them that opened themselves up to an identity that was not them after the initial trauma happened.
Speaker B:Porn is one of those things that will absolutely destroy you.
Speaker B:And it will.
Speaker B:It's like a burning flame that is inside of you that never gets quenched.
Speaker B:And you just, it's almost like you just always have to look at it.
Speaker B:Porn is one of Those things, like we said work, like we said drugs and alcohol, Internet, man, a lot of people, you would not believe how many people we come across that dive into Facebook and social media as an addiction.
Speaker B:They spend hours and hours and hours that they're not at work or they're at home on social media.
Speaker B:And therefore they're not spending time with their family, they're not spending time with their loved ones, they're not able to do anything else but look on social media.
Speaker B:So there's all kinds of stuff like that.
Speaker B:And we see it in all realms of what we do.
Speaker B:And what we found is addiction could be a primary substance abuse could be a primary addiction.
Speaker B:But then a lot of times relationships and other things kind of play into that.
Speaker B:There is what we call codependency.
Speaker B:That is a huge one that we see that it may not even be addiction, but a lot of times it is.
Speaker B:There are spouses of our men or women that have heavy codependency issues where they're not addicted to a substance, but they're addicted to a person.
Speaker B:So basically what are we saying?
Speaker B:They are addicted to that person and they're finding all their sufficiency in that person.
Speaker B:A lot of times we can define codependency as someone who feels like they need to fix the other.
Speaker B:And so when that person gets fixed, then the challenge is over and they don't have to fix them anymore.
Speaker B:And so sometimes what we see is that they create issues in the relationship to break them again so that they can go back in to fix them.
Speaker B:It's wild.
Speaker B:We see all this and it's codependency at its core.
Speaker B:And we see it, that's another addiction that just people addiction.
Speaker B:Men and women are addicted to relationships.
Speaker B:They see that, you know what if they don't have a relationship, they feel less about themselves.
Speaker B:They have self confidence issues.
Speaker B:And you know, I'm sure that you can see other people outside of drug and alcohol addiction who are addicted to relationships.
Speaker B:They're going to bars and they're trying to meet as many people as they can, talk to many people as they can.
Speaker B:They feel better about themselves.
Speaker B:They're putting all of their sufficiency in that one person.
Speaker B:And so those are some major ones that we see on our end.
Speaker C:Yeah, and like you had mentioned the gentleman with the tattoos.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:He was expressing stay away from me.
Speaker C:And I'm thinking about you as a listener who you have a 40 hour week job, you know, you have a normal life on the surface, you're not tatted up You've never been to prison.
Speaker C:How common is it with you within your ministry experience to have somebody who doesn't look what society feels like addiction should look like?
Speaker C:How, how common is it to have somebody raise their hand that walks in, in, in.
Speaker C:Is it hard?
Speaker C:Like, do you ever look at somebody and you're like, wow, you struggle with addiction?
Speaker C:Are we just so culturally used to assuming addiction looks and feels a certain way that again, trying to demystify this idea of addiction?
Speaker C:Is it more widespread spread that even people understand?
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Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:You know, when I was just used media as an example, I grew up from a great home, upper middle class.
Speaker B:My dad, again, he was a, a colonel or lieutenant colonel in the army.
Speaker B:I had everything I wanted.
Speaker B:I dressed nice, didn't have tattoos all over me.
Speaker B:I went to church every Sunday because I was made to go to church every Sunday.
Speaker B:And a lot of people say that was my initial drug problem.
Speaker B:I was drugged to church every day.
Speaker B:But, you know, I was in church.
Speaker B:If you looked at me, I did not look like an alcohol addict or a drug addict.
Speaker B:Not at all.
Speaker B:But of course, I think it touches everybody.
Speaker B:And we've seen judges, we've seen lawyers, we've seen doctors, teachers.
Speaker B:I mean, all kinds of people that do not have the tattoos all over them, that do not dress, you know, in the, the, in the addiction genre.
Speaker B:But I tell you, they, they, they come from all different walks of life.
Speaker B:And one thing I have found out in all of my years of drug and alcohol ministry is that it touches absolutely everybody every time.
Speaker B:I, not every time, but a lot of times when I speak, I like to see a show of hands of, of who has, who has a family member or, you know, a friend that is addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:And literally everybody in the whole place raises their hand because somebody has been touched with drugs and alcohol.
Speaker B:And not all the time is it those people that you know, have horrible family lives we see every day where pastors and ministers and preachers and successful men and women have children that just get with the wrong crowd.
Speaker B:And they started out as a social thing, but then they develop an addiction problem.
Speaker B:And, you know, we see that it's.
Speaker B:It's no respecter of persons at all.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I had one of my good friends I was introduced to through podcasting.
Speaker C:His name is Chris Cannon.
Speaker C:He was a pastor out in California.
Speaker C:And he had talked about how he was in ministry for years.
Speaker C:And due to being in the spotlight, he began to have an extra merit.
Speaker C:Marital affair with one of the women in the church because of how she made him feel and appreciated him.
Speaker C:And it took him down a dark road that made him resign from the church.
Speaker C:But now God has graced him and, you know, brought him and his wife back together and restored him.
Speaker C:And he actually has a non profit called Sword and Shovel, which is to help men, based on the book of Nehemiah, discover that in one hand you have a shovel, on the other hand you have a sword.
Speaker C:And there is a war that is constantly at battle for your sword, soul and who you are.
Speaker C:And so he is in this road.
Speaker C:And when we started talking and you're recording this episode, I'm like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker C:I've never been on a podcast where a pastor's talking about being unfaithful.
Speaker C:And we got done, and when we released that episode, he would text me almost every day and was like, I don't understand.
Speaker C:I have all these people from my past reaching out to me.
Speaker C:And Chris, I need your help and this and that.
Speaker C:And so I think if, even thinking of what we've talked about so far, if you've ever struggled with additional addiction, the main idea is you're not alone.
Speaker C:It's more widespread than you realize.
Speaker C:99 of addiction stems from, in your world, trauma, something that's happened to you.
Speaker C:So if you're listening to this and you're like, I'm not sure if I'm addicted.
Speaker C:Has there been anything that has happened to you in your life that you know, has.
Speaker C:You've never actually dealt with?
Speaker C:And addiction doesn't have to be crystal meth and alcohol.
Speaker C:It could be food, it could be work, it could be being unfaithful.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I'm thinking about some, some different camps, right?
Speaker C:The ultimate worst news you can hear is that somebody lost their life due to overdose or to addiction.
Speaker C:There's no going back, right?
Speaker C:You can't, you can't undo what has been done.
Speaker C:That is awful.
Speaker C:There are people that right now you've raised their awareness that something might be going on.
Speaker C:Maybe they've never told their spouse that they're addicted secretly to work, to alcohol, to pornography.
Speaker C:We do not want anybody to lose a life or to lose a marriage on the account of you get discovered that you're doing something that you know you shouldn't be doing.
Speaker C:What would you say, Jeremy, to the person listening to this?
Speaker C:That they have a conviction right now that they need to be honest about something that they've been doing in secret that, you know, Chris said to me one time, he said, what's one thing you wish someone knew about you?
Speaker C:It's a positive question.
Speaker C:I'd love people to know that I do this or that.
Speaker C:He said, what's one thing you hope no one ever learns about you?
Speaker C:And that is a deeper question because again, we can mask the things we're struggling with with success, with money, coaching teams, being involved in ministry, volunteering, social media, pictures we post.
Speaker C:But I wonder about how many people listening and if it's even one life than, than, than you listener who I'm speaking to.
Speaker C:What is it that you don't hope anybody ever discovers in your life?
Speaker C:And then, Jeremy, how would you even give counsel to somebody today?
Speaker C:How do you begin that process?
Speaker C:Especially if they're married, right, and they have a spouse that they've never told?
Speaker C:What are some initial steps through your years in ministry and what you went through to start a conversation?
Speaker C:Because we create these worst case scenarios, right?
Speaker C:I'm gonna tell my spouse when they come home that I'm addicted to pornography or that I struggle with drugs or gambling and they're going to leave me immediately with the kids.
Speaker C:I think sometimes our mind is a beautiful blessing but also a terrible playground that can imprison us to think the worst.
Speaker C:But to that person who, gosh, you guys are speaking to me, I hope someone never finds us out.
Speaker C:What is step one?
Speaker C:What are a couple initial practical takeaways to help somebody come clean or to get help in those areas?
Speaker B:You know, if we look at the 12 step model, the first step is to realize that your lives have become unmanageable, which means that something else is managing your life.
Speaker B:And so that's what addiction is.
Speaker B:Whether it's drugs, alcohol, relationships, work.
Speaker B:What is managing your life that you don't have control over?
Speaker B:And so I would say step one is identifying the things that you feel like you cannot control or you have difficulty, difficulty controlling.
Speaker B:That seems to be a slave Master or that seems to have control over your life to basically, you know, cause you to do it and you can't.
Speaker B:It's very hard for you to say no.
Speaker B:You know, me being a pastor, I always kind of go to scripture.
Speaker B:But one thing I love that Paul says.
Speaker B:He says all things are lawful, but not all things are necessary.
Speaker B:He says, all things are lawful, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Speaker B:And so basically what he's saying there is that us living in this world, there's so many lawful things that we can partake in.
Speaker B:I could go right now to a liquor store, get me a 12 pack of beer.
Speaker B:Why is that?
Speaker B:Because I'm 48 years old.
Speaker B:I can go and purchase that lawfully.
Speaker B:I will not get in trouble with the law.
Speaker B:I can take that home and I can drink that.
Speaker B:But Paul was saying, is it necessary for me to live?
Speaker B:Do I have to have this thing that I am willing to go and partake in to live?
Speaker B:And that's what we have to ask ourselves when we look at these addictions.
Speaker B:And when we look at these things that are trying to be a master over us, is that, do I really need them?
Speaker B:Are they necessary?
Speaker B:And if they aren't necessary, and if it's something that you just, you know, you don't have to have, then that's when we really need to start understanding.
Speaker B:We got to give them up, and we've got to put them in its place, and we've got to talk to somebody about it.
Speaker B:Paul goes on to say, I will not be brought under the power.
Speaker B:Vinny, what is the things that bring you under its power?
Speaker B:Those things is what you must look at and what you must make sure of to say, okay, you know what?
Speaker B:We've got to give this up.
Speaker B:We've got to do something with this, because it is causing me to live a certain way.
Speaker B:It is causing.
Speaker B:It is destroying things in my life because it is here to be my master.
Speaker B:And so once you identify those things and you have truly come to the place and the understanding that my life has become unmanageable, that now I need a manager and now I need help to help me manage what's going on, then, yes, that is when you identify that.
Speaker B:That's when you really need to talk somebody for help.
Speaker B:You know, in.
Speaker B:In the 12 steps, it actually says that you seek a higher power, which is God.
Speaker B:A lot of people in the AA and the NA Realms, they will say, you know, anything could be your higher power.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They actually have put in their God of your understanding, which means this doorknob could be my higher power, My wife could be my higher power.
Speaker B:This chair could be a higher power, as long as I look at that as a higher power.
Speaker B:But a doorknob has never helped me say no to things.
Speaker B:My wife has it.
Speaker B:She cannot be my higher power.
Speaker B:We have to have a higher power than us.
Speaker B:And so when we reach out to that higher power and we say, you know, mine was Jesus, I say, jesus, I have to have you help me, and I have to come clean with this, and I have to have help for this.
Speaker B:I think that is the first key, is to, of course, seek help from a higher power.
Speaker B:Then, of course, you know, you've got to seek help with your loved ones, and you have really, you know, got to.
Speaker B:Got to do what you can to make sure that you're not being mastered by something that's going to absolutely destroy your life.
Speaker B:You know, you need to make sure that whatever you have going on with your family, your friends, your relationships, your work, you got to make sure that whatever that thing is, it will absolutely try to ruin your life and take absolutely everything away from you.
Speaker B:And you've got to make sure that you put it in its place and that it cannot rule and run your life anymore.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I, again, I just keep thinking back to my conversation with Chris that we had.
Speaker C:The one question that he posed was, what is what does not say no to you in your life?
Speaker C:And when I think about addiction, your spouse can say no to you, and that hurts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Your employer can say no to you.
Speaker C:Your children can deny you, your friends can say no.
Speaker C:Jack Daniels doesn't say no.
Speaker C:Ice cream doesn't say no.
Speaker C:Crystal meth doesn't say no.
Speaker C:And so I think addiction is one of those things when you talk about coping, and it's not even like we had mentioned, too, the egregious drugs and alcohol, which, if that's real, that's real.
Speaker C:But it could just be your cell phone in your hand.
Speaker C:You are spending more time on a device than the actual people in your life.
Speaker C:And, you know, my hope is that I never hear news, I never want to hear about a friend or somebody.
Speaker C:I know that there was something we could have done.
Speaker C:And so, you know, in this episode, Jeremy, I think you've done a really nice job of coming back to demystifying addiction, talking about how widespread it is that trauma is so real and near and dear, side by side with addiction.
Speaker C:And so no one chooses to wake up and be addicted to something.
Speaker C:And if you are in that camp right now or your spouse is in that camp.
Speaker C:You even talked about codependency.
Speaker C:I think addiction, regardless of your age or gender, your sex or your religious beliefs, if you believe what Jeremy and I believe, or you've never experienced a life of faith, addiction doesn't care.
Speaker C:But I think what we have discovered is that it's only through our life in Christ that we can realize it.
Speaker C:In our weakness, he is made perfect and strong.
Speaker C: re is way more information in: Speaker C:But my sneaking suspicion is that people have never felt more alone because the more information that's put in front of you, the worse it makes you feel about yourself.
Speaker C:You know, you know, changes on the other side of the things you're not doing right.
Speaker C:If you want to be in great shape, you stop eating certain things, sugar, sweets, eating late at night, but you're not doing it.
Speaker C:And so when you see people that are in great shape, it makes you feel terrible because you have every right and opportunity to turn your life around.
Speaker C:When you see a beautiful, healthy marriage, it makes you feel small because you just screamed at your spouse before you listen to this episode, which go make it right now.
Speaker C:When you see that people have the thing that you realize you could have, I think it makes you feel awful.
Speaker C:I'd say the one caveat to that is addiction is so different because once addiction gets going, you can't do it alone.
Speaker C:Health, you can, you can tell yourself it's time to stop being chubby.
Speaker C:It's time to get my life back.
Speaker C:But if you are struggling with drugs, with porn, with work, that is one battle that you will not be able to fight on your own.
Speaker C:And so Jeremy has laid out for you.
Speaker C:There's an organization in East Tennessee, true purpose.
Speaker C:But find an organization wherever you live.
Speaker C:Because I know many of you listeners are tuning in from not only all over this country, but all over the world.
Speaker C:Find organizations, find churches, find people that have gifts and callings in trauma that can help you acknowledge that you are not alone, that you are not broken.
Speaker C:And I think you know, Jeremy, I've had the opportunity to interview 50 some odd people now on this show, some who would be at the top echelon of music, the NFL, everyday people and what I find is that we're all human.
Speaker C:That's the one thing that brings us all together.
Speaker C:We all have DNA.
Speaker C:We all have certain time in this life.
Speaker C:None of us know when this life is going to come to an end.
Speaker C:We've all been given opportunities, we've all experienced things, Some things we asked for, some things we didn't.
Speaker C:But it's a culmination of all of those things coming together that makes you who you are today.
Speaker C:But like you had said in this episode, it's not what you've been through, but it's what you're doing with it now.
Speaker C:And so if you are somebody who came in just wanting to listen to a podcast and you're car cleaning your house and you thought, good Lord, this is a lot deeper than I thought.
Speaker C:Good, park there for a second.
Speaker C:What I would encourage you to do, get a cup of coffee, get alone by yourself and really think about whether you feel like you are somebody who is addicted to something right now.
Speaker C:Take some time through.
Speaker C:Through meditation, through, you know, just quiet moments to think about.
Speaker C:Is there anything in my life that I run to more often than I should?
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I think that will start to illuminate.
Speaker C:Is it food?
Speaker C:Is it.
Speaker C:Is it, you know, working out?
Speaker C:Is it drugs?
Speaker C:Is it alcohol?
Speaker C:But addiction is something that, like you had said, affects so many of us.
Speaker C:So is there anything as we kind of bring this episode to a close, Jeremy, that you wanted to leave listeners with, that maybe we didn't touch on?
Speaker B:Yes, sir.
Speaker B:Just like you were just saying, are those.
Speaker B:Those things that we run to in the drug and alcohol world?
Speaker B:They call their drug dealer the plug.
Speaker B:So if we look at a lamp, a lamp has to be plugged into the electrical outlet in order to work.
Speaker B:And so that's a good way of understanding addictions in our life.
Speaker B:What do we feel like we have to have or plug into that causes us or helps us to live everyday life?
Speaker B:Those are the things that we all can struggle with, and those will.
Speaker B:That will really help you identify with those things that seem to be a plug in your life.
Speaker B:It may not be the drug dealer, but guess what?
Speaker B:It may be social media.
Speaker B:It may be relationships.
Speaker B:You know, it may be eating, something like that.
Speaker B:So please look at that.
Speaker B:One last thing I would like to say is I was at a UT game not too long ago, and as I was looking around the stadium, you know, it was a packed house.
Speaker B:It was close to 100,000 people there.
Speaker B:And as you're in that stadium, the roar of the People how loud it is.
Speaker B:You see just all kinds of heads and shirts and all that sitting in that stadium.
Speaker B:I realized that last year we had that many overdoses in the United States.
Speaker B:And so as I'm sitting there at UT Stadium, I'm looking around and I'm saying, every single person in here died of an overdose last year.
Speaker B:It really put it into perspective for me, because a lot of times when we think about overdoses.
Speaker B:Oh, 100,000.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's a lot of people.
Speaker B:Well, there's 200 million people in the world or in the nation.
Speaker B:Sure, I get that.
Speaker B:But when you look at the stadium of Neyland stadium and have 100,000 people in there, it really puts it in perspective for you.
Speaker B:So you never know when you could be next, or you never know when your loved one could be next.
Speaker B:Just do your best to absolutely try to be a light to people.
Speaker B:And you never know when that encouraging word could save somebody from overdosing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that's such a great visualization to leave this episode with.
Speaker C:I think there's so much news and sensationalism that's out there today that has numbed us all to the fact that people die every day.
Speaker C:Whether it's overdose, whether it's accidents, whether it's war.
Speaker C:People become statistics really easily in our mind.
Speaker C:12 people died today in a school shooting.
Speaker C:Hey, honey, where.
Speaker C:When are we going to Chick Fil A?
Speaker C:And it's like, not that we don't care, but we've become so numb to it.
Speaker C:But I want to tell you that there's one out there who breaks his heart, and that's God.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:God.
Speaker C:God designed each one of us on purpose.
Speaker C:He knows every hair on our head.
Speaker C:He made you for purpose.
Speaker C:On a purpose.
Speaker C:Purpose in.
Speaker C:When somebody chooses a path that you know is not right for their life, it breaks his heart in.
Speaker C:One of the most beautiful things I'll share is in my time at church with you and the members of True Purpose, there is a beauty to the brokenness of somebody who's gone through a difficult time and realize that there's hope.
Speaker C:The outpouring of love and support that I see on Sunday mornings for men and women in church.
Speaker C:True purpose.
Speaker C:That when a guy or a gal goes forward for prayer during worship and falls on their knee in tears, feeling broken about where they've been or what they've done, and the shame, the number of men and women that surround that person with.
Speaker C:Not the.
Speaker C:Like, don't touch them.
Speaker C:Don't be weird.
Speaker C:I mean, like, Falling on them, covering them.
Speaker C:There is a community that is built in the brokenness of recognizing that we're all broken people.
Speaker C:It's just that people that have been through true purpose and celebrate recovery have recognized they're not alone.
Speaker C:Their story's not over.
Speaker C:And that other people like you and me have struggled too, as well.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker C:It's so.
Speaker C:It's what do we do with it?
Speaker C:And so if you have ever gone through addiction, tell somebody.
Speaker C:You know, help somebody else along.
Speaker C:And, you know, that's the one thing I've seen about people going through addiction in that community, is their willingness to share what they've experienced.
Speaker C:And so I just wonder for all of us in this world today, whether it's addiction or some other form of trauma or something, what is the story that you should be sharing with other people that you're not sharing?
Speaker C:That could be the bridge between helping them realize they're not alone.
Speaker C:That could be depression, as I said, that could be infertility.
Speaker C:That could be divorced child, whatever it is.
Speaker C:Like, what is the story that, you know, you need to be sharing with people, whether it's on a podcast or it's in a blog, because you're probably more connected to other people.
Speaker C:In that case, let's not.
Speaker C:Let's not.
Speaker C:Let's stop making each other statistics and let's get back to the realization that we're human beings that are still writing stories of our life every single day.
Speaker C:So, Jeremy, I appreciate you, brother.
Speaker C:I appreciate the call on your life.
Speaker C:I appreciate True Purpose Ministries.
Speaker C:If you are here in East Tennessee, as you said, there's six campuses.
Speaker C:Get the help that you need.
Speaker C:But wherever you are listening to this podcast, or again, I would encourage all of you, if you want to watch on YouTube, you can head over to my YouTube channel at Steve Campbell PR.
Speaker C:That's Steve Campbell PR.
Speaker C:You can watch this entire episode, watch clips from this episode, but this podcast will also be available on every major podcast platform.
Speaker C:Don't only consume it, share it with somebody else.
Speaker C:Be willing to maybe leave a comment or review about your experience listening to this episode.
Speaker C: hat I have also discovered in: Speaker C:But what I have discovered is that when it's really good, meaningful, genuine content, you never know how, by you leaving a comment on a video or about a podcast, somebody else may see that and realize that they're not alone in their struggle.
Speaker C:So, Jeremy, appreciate you being a guest on the one big thing.
Speaker C:To your family and friends, thank you for stopping by.
Speaker C:I hope you'll go back and listen to other episodes.
Speaker C:We always try to title these and write these in such a way that you'll get a pretty good good snapshot right at the beginning, whether it's something you want to listen to, but appreciate you being on this journey.
Speaker C:Until next time, thanks for being my guest on the One Big Thing.
Speaker B:Hey, thank you, Steve.
Speaker B:I appreciate it.
Speaker B:I had a great time.
Speaker A:Thanks for checking out my show.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to write a review or drop a comment wherever you're listening or watching.
Speaker A:And be sure to stay connected.
Speaker A:Did you know you can subscribe to my YouTube channel, which is Steve Campbell Prince?
Speaker A:That's Steve Campbell PR and I'm a real person who's reachable.
Speaker A:You can find me on all my socials and connect with me.
Speaker A:If you have topics or guests you'd love to hear from, let me know.
Speaker A:But thanks for being a part of this journey with me.
Speaker A:And until next time, enjoy other episodes of the One Big Thing podcast.
