Episode 52
When Obedience Looks Like Risk with Pacer Hepperly
In this episode of my One Big Thing podcast, I connect with my pastor, mentor, and friend — Pacer Hepperly. As the senior pastor of Rio Revolution Church, a multi-site campus that reaches over 13,000 people and streams into 35 correctional facilities, Pacer’s journey is anything but conventional.
From humble beginnings in a broken home and working in a factory with no clear direction, to launching a successful car dealership and eventually stepping into full-time ministry at the age of 43, Pacer shares how his life has been shaped not by one defining moment, but by a series of small, faithful decisions.
Together, we unpack the significance of patience, perseverance, and obedience — especially when you don’t have a plan B. We discuss how to make difficult life decisions, the role of wise counsel, and how God confirms His direction in our lives, even when the details are unclear. Pacer also opens up about his unexpected call to prison ministry and the powerful impact it’s having across 35 jails.
Whether you’re leading a business, a family, or finding your way through a season of uncertainty, this episode offers real-world wisdom, spiritual insight, and hope for those asking, “What’s next for me?”
Key Takeaways:
- Why success is often the result of doing “a lot of small things right”
- The power of patience and staying faithful through long seasons
- How to discern the difference between faith and foolishness in decision-making
- Why seeking wise, experienced voices is crucial when you’re navigating big life changes
- The beautiful story of how one church is restoring hope in prisons across the region
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Pacer Hepperly is the senior pastor of Revolution Church, a multi-campus church in Maryville, Tennessee. Since accepting the Lord’s call to preach, Pastor Hepperly has dedicated his life to serving his congregation and the communities within Blount County.
Along with Revolution Church, he founded Revolution Christian Academy, (RCA), a thriving Christian school that serves ages 2-5 and grades K-5th, and focuses on using Biblical core values to educate students.
Pastor Pacer has an extraordinary passion for discipleship and community outreach.
Pacer and his wife Connie have been married for more than 30 years. They share two sons, Josh and Hunter, two amazing daughters-in-law, Codi and Stacey, and six grandchildren.
______________________________
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Transcript
Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast where inspiration meets transformation.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Steve Campbell, and I'm excited to have you join me today.
Speaker A:I welcome guests from all walks of life to the show.
Speaker A:We're going to spend about 30 minutes getting into their story and sharing the One Big thing that they want to share with all of you that can help you move the forward in your life.
Speaker A:So thank you for being my guest in the One Big Thing and enjoy this episode.
Speaker B:It's just like we're going to step into this without a plan B.
Speaker B:Many times we've all, we all want to have a plan B and so I'm not a big fan of plan B.
Speaker B:I think that when you, when you feel good with something that you should go all in 100% without even the, the idea or the thought of it failing.
Speaker B:And we know that some things fail and if.
Speaker B:But, but I believe that God will use those things that fail as a tool to help us, you know, re navigate or get it on, get on another path for success.
Speaker A:Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Steve Campbell.
Speaker A:Got to make sure I don't screw this one up today as I actually have my pastor on with me, Pacer Hepperle.
Speaker A:Sourcing guests is always a ple.
Speaker A:And when you have somebody who's been a spiritual mentor and father in many ways to you, I wanted to create the space to honor him, to come share what I get to take from him every Sunday, but also just knowing him as a personal friend.
Speaker A:And so Pacer Heppily, welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker A:For those that know you from our church, family and friends, welcome.
Speaker A:This is an interview style show and I interview people from all walks of life with the whole idea of how do we encourage and inspire people that are in challenging seasons right now, really around one big, you know, theme or life lesson that you'd want to share.
Speaker A:So for those that may not know you, do you want to take a minute here at the beginning just to explain who you are?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, first I want to say thanks Steve, for having me on.
Speaker B:It took us a little while to coordinate this date, but I'm excited to be with you.
Speaker B:And again, my name is Pacer Hepperle.
Speaker B:I'm a senior pastor of a multi stock campus, also a business owner and husband, father, seven grandchildren.
Speaker B:And so we can unpack any of that or all of that, whatever you'd like to do.
Speaker B:But I'm just, I'm just thrilled to be with you today.
Speaker A:Well, you are officially My second pastor in my tenure of recording the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker A:For those that are here, just checking it out, I had the honor of sitting down with Pastor Chris Cannon, who had a little bit of different story that was a really revealing episode as he was in ministry for 10 years, unfortunately was unfaithful to his wife, had to step down from a church, and what the enemy tried to use as a weakness actually became a launching pad for him to start a non profit out in California called Sword and Shovel Ministry, which is to help men fighting addiction and infidelity kind of reclaim their purpose.
Speaker A:To give you a little spoiler alert, him and his wife reconciled, got back together.
Speaker A:So it wasn't just a big mistake that ended in a life, you know, sentence, but it was something that God used to bring together for good.
Speaker A:So to hear a pastor kind open up, you know, I'm excited, Pacer, to have you on today.
Speaker A:And you know, this show is called the One Big Thing.
Speaker A:When I think about creating content, I never want to just share a story to share a story.
Speaker A:I want to give you as a listener a takeaway that you can maybe implement in your life from Pacer Story and the things he's learned.
Speaker A:So Pacer Hepperle, if I had to ask you, what is your one big thing that you'd want to share with listeners today?
Speaker B:Yeah, so if you would ask me this question 30 years ago, I'm sure it would have totally been different.
Speaker B:I was on a different path.
Speaker B:But today I'm 61 years old, as I said earlier, senior pastor of a church, multi site campus church.
Speaker B:And so my one big thing is really focused on faith and focus on ministry and you know, there's a lot to unpack there.
Speaker B:But you know, today I am a senior pastor but also a business owner.
Speaker B:And so I would love to spend some time today talking about how I've gotten to where I'm at.
Speaker B:But honestly, I don't think it was one big thing.
Speaker B:I think it was a sequence of a lot of small things.
Speaker A:Yeah, we can cheat the system.
Speaker A:Instead of having one big thing, we'll get into small things.
Speaker A:And if you know, faith isn't a part of your background, I don't care.
Speaker A:Come listen.
Speaker A:There's going to be takeaways today.
Speaker A:When you hear multi site, all that means in our realm is that real revolution which you are the senior pastor of God has blessed with great favor and we've welcomed too many people for one campus to hold.
Speaker A:So you open additional sites where people have the ability to meet together with other people, but live stream in and be a part of the service.
Speaker A:And so if you've never heard the word multisite before and you don't know what that means, most people think a pastor oversees one church, but God has given you the ability to oversee multiple campuses.
Speaker A:And, you know, as we were kind of leading up to the show, I think it's awesome that you also have a background in business because if you've never been a pastor, it might be hard to identify because people have never been in ministry.
Speaker A:But when you say business owner, as you and I were kind of talking about leading up to this show and conversations, whether you're overseeing 13,000 people as a pastor or you're part of a management team of a company, or you have a vision for starting a business or just leading a family, how do you lead?
Speaker A:How do you lead?
Speaker A:Well, and it doesn't matter if it's members of a congregation, employees, customers, I think you having kind of both of those dual roles will help somebody regardless of where they're coming from today.
Speaker A:Go.
Speaker A:Okay, I may not understand it as a pastor, but when you say business owner, now you're speaking my language because I want to be the best business owner possible.
Speaker A:So you said, you know, you wanted to talk about your journey, being 61, where you've come from today, where, where's a good starting point?
Speaker A:Where do you want to start?
Speaker B:Well, let, let's just briefly go back to, to childhood and then we'll move pretty quick into my first real job.
Speaker B:How's that sound?
Speaker A:Don't worry, this isn't a five day podcast.
Speaker A:When he says we're going to start a childhood, he's going to give you the sped up version of his life.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Just, just come from a family that was broken, experienced a lot of dysfunction, an incredible mother, incredible father, just, you know, they didn't see eye to eye.
Speaker B:So my mother was married four times and, you know, not blaming anything in my childhood based on, you know, on that, but I would say that as I went through school, I didn't focus on things I should have focused on.
Speaker B:And so I didn't make good plans in terms of setting up a career path or a future.
Speaker B:And so when I graduated high school, it was pretty much, this is the end in terms of education.
Speaker B:Let's get a job, just a factory job or whatever I could find and let's get, let's go to work.
Speaker B:So now here I am, 19 years old, I've got a job in a factory.
Speaker B:I'm Working with a bunch of guys, a bunch of buddies that I'm hanging out with through the week.
Speaker B:Just got married.
Speaker B:I really have no goals, I have no future.
Speaker B:But what happened was during this process, this is where the faith aspect came in.
Speaker B:So I'd been feeling like I needed to change, like that there was something missing in my life.
Speaker B:I wasn't exactly sure what, but I continued to feel this, had this feeling.
Speaker B:And eventually I came to the point of prayer and a prayer of surrender.
Speaker B:And so as a result of that prayer, my life took a different path and a different turn.
Speaker B:And so I wanted to quickly, you know, bring you through what took place there.
Speaker B:So I started.
Speaker B:I had a desire after that prayer, after what I would call salvation.
Speaker B:I had this desire to be successful.
Speaker B:I wanted to.
Speaker B:I wanted to raise a family, I wanted to have a career path.
Speaker B:But again, I felt like I was stuck.
Speaker B:I'm stuck in a factory, don't see any way out.
Speaker B:We had been able to purchase a repoed double wide trailer that we're living in.
Speaker B:And it was not much to look at, just to be honest with you, but it worked.
Speaker B:But through this path, through this journey, I started noticing as I would apply principles that I would read in the Bible, that it was like God started giving me a desire for success, a desire to do better.
Speaker B:And so what happened was a couple job changes.
Speaker B:I ended up employed for the city of Maryville, which is city government, basically low level position, started there reading meters.
Speaker B:I was the guy that would slip around the back of your yard and the dogs would chase me away.
Speaker B:And so I did that for a year or so.
Speaker B:But what happened, Steve, was I was not the person that would come in and complain about the job or if it was raining out or it was too hot.
Speaker B:It's like, come on, let's go, let's do it.
Speaker B:And as a result, I noticed that my boss was drawn.
Speaker B:You know, he liked my work ethic.
Speaker B:And as soon as a promotion was available, I was promoted.
Speaker B:And over the next 19 years, there was multiple promotions until the point came that I was over an entire department.
Speaker B:And as a result of that, there was employees that under me that required, you know, a degree or degrees.
Speaker B:And so God had just really elevated me up.
Speaker B:And so we were talking about the one big thing.
Speaker B:What I noticed in my life, I felt like it was just doing a lot of the little things, right?
Speaker B:You know, as far as getting in there and working and doing the extra and not complaining.
Speaker B:And as a result, I noticed that, man, you know, I'm doing alright, doing pretty well.
Speaker B:And so 19 years brought me to the point where I wanted to do even more.
Speaker B:You know, it was good pay, I made good money, but I wanted to make more.
Speaker B:I'm money motivated.
Speaker B:I wanted to make more money.
Speaker B:I wanted to have a good family for my, my wife and for my two sons at the time.
Speaker B:So we started a business and it was a car business.
Speaker B:I'd always been fascinated with automobiles.
Speaker B:I always loved them.
Speaker B:And so I thought, you know, let's start this little business.
Speaker B:Well, what happened as a result of that?
Speaker B:It started taking off and it started growing and it started developing.
Speaker B:So now I'm working two jobs managing the business and about two years in, year and a half, two years in.
Speaker B:Steve the business now is making four times the money that the city government's paying me.
Speaker B:So it's like it's not making sense for me to go and become a manager or be a manager for city government.
Speaker B:I need to go ahead and invest more time into this dealership.
Speaker B:And so anyway, that's just in a nutshell how I ended up in and opened up a small business.
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Speaker A:Well, and I think I want to back up because I think sometimes we hear things in people's stories and we just, oh, that.
Speaker A:You know, I get that your mom had been married four times and with you and your brothers and you know, any other siblings, that's four different men entering your life as authority figures.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, for us that have never come from a divorced or broken family, it's hard enough trying to make it as a teen growing up when you had mothers and fathers that loved you.
Speaker A:But when you come from brokenness, not that you get a pass in life, but I think a lot of people, it's easy to lean into that of, well, I didn't have the upbringing, people can make excuses.
Speaker A:I think what's cool about your story is the two takeaways is you came from brokenness and we're still able to find good in all of that by doing a lot of small things, but also when you're in your 30s and 40s.
Speaker A:Today the world is going so fast and our and our time clock has sped up that we believe things should be happening faster.
Speaker A:I wonder how many of us, if you made an offer that for 19 years you could do something to get to the place that God is calling you to, how many of us would accept that challenge?
Speaker A:Because 19 years in today's timeline seems like a forever.
Speaker A:You know, we want to work a job for a year or be in a home in a year before we upgrade.
Speaker A:We want to be promoted quickly.
Speaker A:So to know that you spent 19 years faithfully doing small things without complaining, without making excuses and this led to promotion after promotion that is in a long time frame.
Speaker A:Take your age as you listen to this episode, add 19 years and say if for starting today, God said 19 years from now, I'm going to open a door of opportunity for you.
Speaker A:How many of us would say yeah, I have the patience to wait for that?
Speaker A:Versus gosh, it feels like these last two years have been a lifetime or decades.
Speaker A:And so I think what's so cool about your story is if we just look at you today, on the surface you look very successful leading 13,000 people as a pastor multi site campuses.
Speaker A:But to know kind of, I don't want to say humble roots in a disrespectful way but the humbleness of where it started and working up and you know, I think starting the business when you have to make these big life decisions, you have entrepreneurs that are listening to this.
Speaker A:I recently had a friend on Kristen who left her full time paying job because she felt God called her to leave, not to go to ministry, but she had found that go by working with non profits that she really had a gift for working in consulting and she really felt this call to just quit her job and go off on her own without a paycheck.
Speaker A:And so I think there are people that know there's, there's maybe a different story that they should be taking or there's more to their story but they don't always know how to get to the next level and they just kind of hope that today's going to be a different day.
Speaker A:Has there been anything, I know you said it's a series of small things, but has there been any way that in your life has helped you make decisions when A promotion comes because that, that's.
Speaker A:Sometimes we get offered promotions and it's just not the right fit, it's not the right season, but it sounds good.
Speaker A:How, how is that in your career?
Speaker A:Like, how have you and Connie been able to make decisions when a promotion's come or new opportunity?
Speaker A:What is the thought process or decision making process kind of been for you over the years?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, first, it's generally scary.
Speaker B:You know, in the beginning it's like, okay, I'm going to be taking a step of faith.
Speaker B:I don't know where this is going to end.
Speaker B:Whether it's promotion with city government or it's an expansion with the, the car dealership, if it's adding a new product line, whatever it may be, it's scary.
Speaker B:And so I guess our decision making or the process for Connie and I is we've always tried to go to the Lord in prayer together and try to have peace with whatever decision we're making.
Speaker B:And if our stomachs are churning and we feel nauseated, we kind of take that as a sign that maybe this is not what the Lord wants for us.
Speaker B:But through prayer we feel that peace then.
Speaker B:Now we're ready to take that next step, whether it's again a job promotion or whatever it may be.
Speaker B:And then what's next is that's totally up to the Lord.
Speaker B:And it's never the same.
Speaker B:It's just like we're going to step into this without a plan B.
Speaker B:Many times we all want to have a plan B.
Speaker B:And so I'm not a big fan of plan B.
Speaker B:I think that when you feel good with something, that you should go all in 100% without even the idea or the thought of it failing.
Speaker B:And we know that some things fail.
Speaker B:But I believe that God will use those things that fell as a tool to help us re navigate or get on another path for success.
Speaker B:And so ours is prayer.
Speaker B:Trust in the Lord.
Speaker B:And then as we step into that new role now it's all in, no plan B.
Speaker B:And we're going to give it our best effort, whatever that looks like.
Speaker B:Whether it's the day I left the city of Maryland, I said, I'm going all in with the car dealership at that point.
Speaker B:It's now I've trusted the city for a paycheck and now I'm depending on people to come in and buy for our paycheck.
Speaker B:It's a leap of faith.
Speaker B:And what I found is that God allowed us to be successful even though there was hard times in the business.
Speaker A:Well, And I.
Speaker A:I think there's a gray area.
Speaker A:And probably people turn to you as a pastor for guidance and wisdom because they're trying to make life decisions as an individual or as a spouse, and the answer isn't always clear.
Speaker A:And I think that there is a very unique way in which God works with us, that there's a difference between faith and foolishness.
Speaker A:Some people, when a decision or an opportunity is presented to them, they want every single detail to be worked out before they ever take a step of faith.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, that's your almost trying to not take faith at all and just make sure it works.
Speaker A:But then there's people that at the slightest indigestion, feel it's God and just jump into something, which is foolishness, saying, I felt God called me to do this.
Speaker A:And I think for many of us, even if faith isn't a part of your life we're trying to navigate, how do I know if something really is God?
Speaker A:Has there been anything in all of your years working in for the city of Maryville, starting the car dealership, and even now in ministry that has either been a personal way that you look at decision making or of the countless people that come to you for counseling?
Speaker A:And sometimes it's, again, we're not talking about evil or malicious things.
Speaker A:Should I go do this?
Speaker A:It's just, should we buy a new home?
Speaker A:Should we relocate?
Speaker A:Should I take the job?
Speaker A:Should we have another child?
Speaker A:Should we adopt?
Speaker A:Should I do this thing?
Speaker A:These are all good things, but God wants great for us.
Speaker A:What is that gray area between foolishness and faith?
Speaker A:Has there been anything.
Speaker A:I know you said when your stomach is upset, you know, it might not be the right path, but is there a certain.
Speaker A:Like, does God confirm things to you over and over again in certain ways that's helped you and that's what you tell people to look for.
Speaker A:But what if you were just talking to me, we weren't on a podcast, and I said, pacer, I have an opportunity in front of me.
Speaker A:What do I do?
Speaker A:How do I know if this is God?
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Could we help a listener who's trying to work through maybe a big life decision right now?
Speaker B:Yeah, so.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:The first thing that I want to do, I mean, prairies first and getting that piece.
Speaker B:But now how do I know?
Speaker B:How do I really know if this is what I should do?
Speaker B:Here's something that I would suggest, and I use this is I try to identify three people that I have confidence in, that has some experience in the area that I'm Needing to.
Speaker B:Needing direction.
Speaker B:And so I try to identify three people and I go to them and I have a conversation.
Speaker B:I lay out everything that, all the information I can give them that I have, and I get their feedback.
Speaker B:And I take those three individuals and I just shelf everything that they tell me.
Speaker B:And so that's part of my process on moving forward.
Speaker B:The other part is what I'm saying is hearing from the Holy Spirit, is the Holy Spirit giving me direction that's in alignment with any of those three?
Speaker B:I think that's some of the things that I do personally, and it helps me because God uses people, obviously, to speak into your life.
Speaker B:He uses circumstances, but he uses people.
Speaker B:And I'm not saying that each one of these individuals need to be a pastor or not.
Speaker B:I'm just saying people with experience in that field that you're looking at, if it's finance, I may come to you, Steve, and say, hey, what do you think about this?
Speaker B:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think what happens too is sometimes we open ourselves up to maybe go to another person, and there's going to be people that are your cheerleaders and in your corner.
Speaker A:And it all depends on how you lay out a situation.
Speaker A:If you weren't a pastor and we were just buddies, and I came to you and I said, man, I'm having a really difficult time at work.
Speaker A:I think I want a new opportunity.
Speaker A:My boss is just riding me.
Speaker A:You love me.
Speaker A:So you'd be like, man, go chase your dreams.
Speaker A:Go take that job.
Speaker A:Which sounds like wisdom, counsel, but really you just love me and you want.
Speaker A:You want to do what's right.
Speaker A:I think when you say these three people, these are going to be three kind of unemotional people of wisdom that aren't just going to listen to the emotion which is coming through, but really listen to maybe what is God saying to them and provide feedback to you.
Speaker A:Because I think so many people, they.
Speaker A:They feel like faith may not be going to other people.
Speaker A:Like, this is something between me and the Lord.
Speaker A:I got to figure out.
Speaker A:You know, I've had this thing weighing on my heart.
Speaker A:Should I go on a missions trip?
Speaker A:Should I adopt?
Speaker A:Should we have more kids?
Speaker A:Should we be giving or tithing more?
Speaker A:Like, should we be doing things?
Speaker A:And sometimes we feel like going to others is a cop out because we want to just hear from God.
Speaker A:And what I think is awesome to hear from you as a pastor is no, I think you need to be selective as to who you go to.
Speaker A:But try to find three people because the first person you go to might be exactly the answer you're looking for.
Speaker A:And you'll make a decision.
Speaker A:The first person may be negative.
Speaker A:And now all of a sudden you feel like, did I miss it?
Speaker A:Having three seems to be balanced because then you're kind of getting a, a blend of the three.
Speaker A:And so I hope that inspires or encourages somebody out there today.
Speaker A:That's a simple thing to do, to want to listen to the Holy Spirit, but find three people that might be able to help you.
Speaker A:So then Pacer, in your world you were, you were turning it into.
Speaker A:And thank you for, for those listening.
Speaker A:Thank you for just.
Speaker A:My brain goes a mile a minute.
Speaker A:I got a buddy Eric who's like, how do you think of these questions in real time?
Speaker A:You try not to get in the way, but I always want to make sure it's impactful.
Speaker A:You had worked for 19 years, City of Maryville, started off then into the car dealership.
Speaker A:And we started off by saying you, you manage, you know, or oversee a multi site campus.
Speaker A:People are probably started saying, well, where did the pastor come in?
Speaker A:So, so what was that?
Speaker A:Like you're now off, you know, running these dealerships.
Speaker A:You, you know, God's hand is on it.
Speaker A:But then you ended up in ministry.
Speaker A:What, what was kind of that transition?
Speaker A:How did that even come about?
Speaker A:And you wouldn't think, typically somebody who's overseeing a car, car lot, family car dealership would now be filling a pulpit every Sunday, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:They, you've probably heard the two people to be aware of, be careful of, is car salesmen and preachers.
Speaker A:Come on, Pace.
Speaker B:You got them both, baby, got them both covered.
Speaker B:So there you go, watch out for me.
Speaker B:You know, here's the thing with, you know, my journey was not, I didn't go to seminary, there wasn't a plan for me to be a pastor.
Speaker B:But I had a feeling in my 20s that maybe that was at least a possibility.
Speaker B:And so again, that's in the back of my mind.
Speaker B:But what I would notice is that many times when I was doing something that didn't require a lot of brain power, that there was a lot of questions in my life about am I doing what I'm supposed to do?
Speaker B:Is there something else?
Speaker B:You know, and it was almost usually when I was mowing the yard, you know, when you're mowing the yard, all you have to do is turn at the end of the yard.
Speaker B:You know, we come back.
Speaker B:So that was my, that was some of my time when I felt like that I would think a lot and I'd question if.
Speaker B:If I'm really doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker B:So that was always there.
Speaker B:Now want to fast forward?
Speaker B:I'm 43 years old.
Speaker B:I've left the city, I'm running a business.
Speaker B:It's expanded, it's grown, it's doing extremely well.
Speaker B:Financially.
Speaker B:We're set.
Speaker B:I'm in my 40s and we can go anywhere we want to go.
Speaker B:We can take vacations, all inclusive trips to Hawaii and Mexico.
Speaker B:And we're doing it.
Speaker B:I mean, we've got the money, the resources are there.
Speaker B:But I still had that question in my mind again.
Speaker B:When I'm doing something that doesn't require a lot of brain activity, it was like, there's still that question, is this it?
Speaker B:Now you're doing well financially, you have no debt.
Speaker B:So I spent some time and I felt like the Lord was really tugging at my heart, that this wasn't it.
Speaker B:There was something else that God had allowed me to start the business to be a tool for ministry, which I'm a big fan of, marketplace ministry.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think that every Christian business owner should realize that they're called into that arena for a purpose, and it's to expand the kingdom in whatever level that looks like in their industry.
Speaker B:So through that prayer, God started really showing me that this, you need to be pastoring a church.
Speaker B:This is your call, this is your purpose.
Speaker B:So I made a decision.
Speaker B:My wife and I made a decision that we laid out several fleeces.
Speaker B:And basically what that means is we were looking for signs saying, God, if this is what you want me to do, I want this to happen in my life.
Speaker B:We did that probably at least three times, maybe more.
Speaker B:And honestly, Steve, it was like every time I ask for a sign, God did it.
Speaker B:And I'd sit back and I'd think, there's no way, but I would always be able to use the.
Speaker B:Well, that was a coincidence.
Speaker B:You know, that was just a coincidence.
Speaker B:And the last sign he gave me, and I'm not going to go into details on what it was, but the last sign, it was like, there's no way that's a coincidence.
Speaker B:And so I said, okay, God, here we go.
Speaker B:I don't know what the car dealership is going to look like.
Speaker B:Our sons are too young to run it, but I'm ready to say yes to the ministry.
Speaker B:And so my wife and I, we said yes.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:And so that was basically how it started.
Speaker B:It's just as simple as that.
Speaker A:Those were 39 used cars buyers that you just put a pamphlet in their car on their way out and they came to join you at the church.
Speaker A:Well, I got to give a little bit of background as to how you and I met.
Speaker A:So I've, I've kind of shared on the podcast before that.
Speaker A:Steph and I, we've been in East Tennessee for four years and through Covid we really felt this tug on our heart to get away from family and relocate.
Speaker A:We didn't really know anybody in East Tennessee, but we just had this strong kind of Abraham calling that it was time to go.
Speaker A:And so we had spent a year, we had traveled to East Tennessee, spent a week down here and really loved it.
Speaker A:At the height of COVID in New York, which was quarantined and locked down.
Speaker A:And then I came down here and thought, what is this place?
Speaker A:And then we ended up selling our home within a day and a half, putting it on the market.
Speaker A:And family was like, what's the plan?
Speaker A:And we had no idea.
Speaker A:There was no plan B, as you said.
Speaker A:It was just, I don't know, being faithful.
Speaker A:House sold.
Speaker A:We ended up having to rent a six month rental on the other side of town.
Speaker A:Family was like, what are you guys doing with four kids?
Speaker A:And we had scheduled a five week trip to East Tennessee to an Airbnb to come and recreate life in East Tennessee as much as possible.
Speaker A:Let's go to church on multiple occasions.
Speaker A:Let's go to grocery stores.
Speaker A:Let's not just have that one week, life is better here, let's move mentality.
Speaker A:And we had visited, I don't know, three or four churches before we ever found Rio, where we go now.
Speaker A:And they just weren't for us.
Speaker A:And so I grew up in what's called the Spirit filled church, the Assemblies of God.
Speaker A:I went to Google and I said, are there any local Spirit filled churches?
Speaker A:And Rio Revolution came up on a search result.
Speaker A:And it was a Saturday night, it was our last Sunday in town.
Speaker A:I said, honey, get ready, tomorrow we're going to go to an all Spanish church.
Speaker A:And she said, I said, we're going to this church called Rio Revolution.
Speaker A:It's going to be awesome.
Speaker A:And I walked in and it wasn't an all Hispanic church.
Speaker A:I wasn't disappointed.
Speaker A:But we had this service and you were up there preaching about stewardship.
Speaker A:But a lot of the message was about how you and Connie struggled financially early in your 20s and you kept using this example of this double wide trailer that might have had a hole in the ceiling with tar.
Speaker A:And I remember sitting there thinking, gosh, this pastor's really been through a lot financially.
Speaker A:He's really struggled in life.
Speaker A:And so here we are weeks later.
Speaker A:That was the only interaction I had with you.
Speaker A:We prayed before I left.
Speaker A:You were kind enough to come out in front of a packed congregation and pray with Steph and I, which was just a, a sign to us that we were in the right place.
Speaker A:And I just thought it was so gracious of you to come out and pray for us.
Speaker A:And so we went back to New York with no plan.
Speaker A:We needed to be out of our house in the next 4ish weeks.
Speaker A:We had a deadline of when our short term lease was going to be up.
Speaker A:We could not find a house to save our life.
Speaker A:And one day I got a call from our realtor who said, I don't know why I didn't mention this to you, but my aunt has been flipping a house in the city of Maryville.
Speaker A:No one knows about it.
Speaker A:Do you want to see it?
Speaker A:So she.
Speaker A:This was literally the day I prayed God, I threw out the fleece.
Speaker A:I need you to do something.
Speaker A:I need a sign.
Speaker A:And I got this phone call out of nowhere.
Speaker A:So we face time.
Speaker A:It ended up that the house worked, but there was a two week period where we had to find a place to stay.
Speaker A:So when you're, when you're states away and you don't know the geography, you don't know businesses, I started looking up, you know, long term hotel rentals and thinking, bring my dog and my four kids and my wife and we'll go stay in this.
Speaker A:And randomly one day you emailed me and said, I was praying for you.
Speaker A:What do you guys need right now?
Speaker A:And I remember I wrote back, we need a place to stay for two weeks.
Speaker A:And later that day you wrote back, I've got this place, you can stay this cabin.
Speaker A:And I remember telling Steph, God, I think Pacer's gonna and Connie open a door of a blessing.
Speaker A:And she said, but is this the place with the hole in the ceiling?
Speaker A:Can you ask?
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker A:So it was this moment of like, what a blessing, Lord, but where in the world are we staying?
Speaker A:And we ended up actually moving down here.
Speaker A:We stayed not only for two weeks, gracious enough where your family is in one of your cabins, but it ended up being eight weeks because our took longer than expected and we had contractors Quit the job.
Speaker A:But it was such a sweet fast pass to getting to know you.
Speaker A:Because for eight weeks, Stephanie and I and our four kids got to stay on the property with you and Connie and your kids have dinner with you when we could.
Speaker A:And I got to see you behind the scenes, which I think my prayer was, God, if I'm going to relocate my family to a place I've never been, I don't know any of these pastors.
Speaker A:I got to know that whoever I'm going to align my family with as a church, in a ministry, I got to know that that pastor isn't there to use and abuse us or, you know, just we don't know them.
Speaker A:And so God gave me this sweet opportunity with you.
Speaker A:For eight weeks, you helped me pick up a couch on Facebook, marketplace in a pickup truck.
Speaker A:We spent time together.
Speaker A:And I think people only see you behind a pulpit or behind a screen.
Speaker A:They know you, but I really got to know you.
Speaker A:And so when I think about man, it's one thing to be a pastor and to have all the right words and be a spiritual mentor.
Speaker A:It's another thing to show up when people need you.
Speaker A:And for Steph and I, I just want to personally thank you for being for us an extension of a family that we didn't have here.
Speaker A:And I think that's what's brought us so close together.
Speaker A:So I've seen firsthand the fruit of your ministry has been blessed, because I think you didn't go to seminary, you didn't check off the boxes.
Speaker A:You're just a man who I think loves the Lord, loves his family, has tried to be obedient every step of the way, has worked to never cheat anybody.
Speaker A:And through a series of small decisions, being faithful, God has opened these doors.
Speaker A:So that's the context for how you and I met that.
Speaker A:So now Steph and I find ourselves at Real Revolution.
Speaker A:It's a multi site campus with over 13, 000 members, but also streaming into how many prisons at this point?
Speaker B:35.
Speaker A:Now can you talk about what that means, streaming into ministries, how that, that, that impact is absolutely incredible.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So, so the majority of our members or listeners are in the prison.
Speaker B:And of course I was never incarcerated.
Speaker B:You know, so you would even want, I would wonder, you know, God, why would you want to use us in those prisons?
Speaker B:But let me quickly tell you how that came to pass.
Speaker B:So during COVID right before COVID happened, we were, we'd been talking to the local sheriff in Blount county about the possibility of streaming our services in their facility.
Speaker B:And he honestly was open to the idea.
Speaker B:We were just trying to figure out how we were going to do it.
Speaker B:Well, not long after the meeting I had with the sheriff, new technology came out in the jails where they added devices, sort of like an iPad devices in every cell in Blount county.
Speaker B:And so these devices were going to be used not only for, well, for visitation primarily, so they didn't have to take inmates out of the cell, relocate them into another classroom and then back and forth.
Speaker B:And all the security that's involved, that was one of the purposes of it.
Speaker B:There were several education and some different things.
Speaker B:So when I found out about it, I said, what about our church app?
Speaker B:Is there a possibility we get our church app on these devices?
Speaker B:And so just to make a long story short, we got them on and it was a huge blessing.
Speaker B:The sheriff okayed it in our, in our county, in Blount county.
Speaker B:And they said immediately they started seeing a difference in just the atmosphere in the jail.
Speaker B:They were overcrowded.
Speaker B:They had about 600 inmates in a facility that's designed for 400.
Speaker B:And they were having a lot of, lot of problems.
Speaker B:But the sheriff gets back with us and said, man, thank you for what you're doing.
Speaker B:It's making a tremendous difference.
Speaker B:The inmates are loving the worship.
Speaker B:They're loving having the access to your church services.
Speaker B:So that's where it started.
Speaker B:It started with one and the cost was $1,000 to be in that jail.
Speaker B:I asked our church, I said, are these people worth a thousand dollar investment to be able to hear the gospel every weekend?
Speaker B:And most of our church said, yes, they are worth it.
Speaker B:So we launched it.
Speaker B:Well, now it's having such an impact that the sheriff, we were interested in some local counties that butts up to the county we live in.
Speaker B:And so we went to talk with them.
Speaker B:The sheriff in our county vouched.
Speaker B:He called their sheriffs, their sheriff and said, hey, it works.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:You should let them in.
Speaker B:And so that's how we got our start.
Speaker B:We started with one, then it was two, then it was three, four, five.
Speaker B:And then it's just continued to grow.
Speaker B:And now we were at 34 until last Sunday.
Speaker B:And we had a couple that moved from California that came up to me and said, hey, how much does it cost?
Speaker B:I said, It's 500amonth now to get in a jail.
Speaker B:They've lowered the price.
Speaker B:They said, well, now we have 35.
Speaker B:So we officially are at 35.
Speaker B:But these people are writing letters Every weekend they're being saved, they're saying, hey, I had no hope, but now this gives me hope.
Speaker B:So it's phenomenal.
Speaker A:Well, and Pacer, I think what you just said is the impact is tremendous, but it doesn't just happen without buy in from all people involved.
Speaker A:And I think anytime you make a big paradigm shifting change, saying, hey, this is important to us as church leadership, we want to be in these jail cells.
Speaker A:Not that it's ever met with friction, but anytime you're trying to change the culture or what we value as an organization where, look, we not only want to preach to those that don't feel they're without hope, but we also want to open our doors as a church that when these men and women get out, we want them to know that there's a home here.
Speaker A:And that takes seeing people that look different than you showing up on Sunday, you know, and, and just, you know, we're not going to stick them in the back of the church like they are a part of our family.
Speaker A:You have individuals that are listening to this show today that have families where they're trying to shift the narrative that's been around their family and their parents, the culture shift.
Speaker A:You got people that are part of businesses where maybe it's been toxic or not an environment and they're trying to shift the culture in their work.
Speaker A:Has there been anything that, as you've been leading Rio, whether it's through the incarceration opportunity or just making changes within the church, or even just back to your time when you were at the dealership, when you try to inject change, like what has helped you not only cast vision, but get other people, because it takes people to do big things.
Speaker A:How do you, how do you convince or how do you get people on board with a vision when it hasn't?
Speaker A:When you only have one tablet, it's hard to imagine 35.
Speaker A:Like, how do we encourage the listener out there today that knows differences on the other side of changes, but doesn't know how to shift a mindset or cultural dynamic, whether it's in their personal life or in their business?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's a great question.
Speaker B:You know, changing culture takes time, obviously.
Speaker B:And so I don't think anyone should expect that they can change the culture quickly.
Speaker B:But what you would need to do as a leader, you would need to talk about what's coming, talk about the change.
Speaker B:Don't shock anyone with something new, but make people aware of what's coming.
Speaker B:And so I think that's in terms of this new culture as far as inviting people who are incarcerated into our jails, because honestly, I think we're probably getting somewhere between probably close to 10 inmates every weekend that are first time visitors to our church.
Speaker B:And so that's a lot of people.
Speaker B:It's not like one.
Speaker B:Occasionally, it's every weekend.
Speaker B:So what basically I did was I talked about it a lot before it happened.
Speaker B:You know, that this is what I see happening.
Speaker B:Number one, I would reference what the Bible has to say about those in prison.
Speaker B:You know, Jesus said that when I was in prison, you visited me.
Speaker B:And then, you know, and then they said, when did we visit you, Jesus?
Speaker B:And he said, when you visited the least of these.
Speaker B:So we talked a lot about this and what's coming and tried to set the tone not abruptly, but, but slowly.
Speaker B:And then when they started coming in, it was a culture change.
Speaker B:But the people, I think, received them well.
Speaker B:I mean, from the beginning, you would see, like I'll give you an example, there's one guy in our church and he's a scientist, he's over the national lab for Oak Ridge, and he's in my life group.
Speaker B:And I asked him the question.
Speaker B:I said, so what do you think about these individuals who are incarcerated coming into our church?
Speaker B:I would see them out in front and I was just curious from a professional individual, what do you think?
Speaker B:And he said, I love it.
Speaker B:He said, we love it.
Speaker B:I think it's great.
Speaker B:So what I noticed, Steve, is that more people were accepting.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of it was because we talked about it, we continue to talk about it, and we give the wins.
Speaker B:When you share a win, then people can buy in.
Speaker B:And I think they're more apt to culture change.
Speaker B:But culture is always changing in your business, in life, especially in the church world.
Speaker B: nged quickly in our church in: Speaker B:But in our particular area, we had individuals moving in just like yourself from upstate New York and from California and from different regions.
Speaker B:So what happened is that our culture changed quickly because we had.
Speaker B:I'm going to throw this number out.
Speaker B:Maybe half of our congregation came from other regions.
Speaker B:They came from California, from New York, and they didn't have the same culture.
Speaker B:There's a different culture there.
Speaker B:And so what I've noticed as a pastor is that, number one, be aware when culture is changing and if it's not a good thing, then start talking about what you would like for it to be.
Speaker B:And I'm saying this as a business owner or whatever, and.
Speaker B:But, but start talking about it.
Speaker B:Talk about the winds.
Speaker B:And maybe some other time we can talk about some of the culture change that I've noticed just from people coming from different regions of America.
Speaker B:It's not from different countries, it's from the United States.
Speaker B:But the culture is different on the west coast than it is the east coast or up north versus down South.
Speaker B:And so when that happened, quickly, it's like we're a different church in terms of our culture.
Speaker B:And it's not a bad thing.
Speaker B:It's just different.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think we all struggle with the idea of different.
Speaker A:But you said the idea of wins or stacking wins.
Speaker A:I think when you say, hey, this is the vision I have for our church or for my business or for our family.
Speaker A:When things start small and in seed form, it's really hard to truly appreciate the fruit of the oak tree down the road.
Speaker A:But when you live stream in every Sunday, every Sunday, every Sunday, and people like, yeah, we do that thing.
Speaker A:But then a human being comes as a result of that, and it's like, oh, like this is actually making a difference.
Speaker A:That win carries such momentum because you feel like we're actually doing it.
Speaker A:And I think for so many of us that are in our 30s and 40s, we're.
Speaker A:We're planting seeds all the time, and we're not yet at the point that you're seeing the fruit right away.
Speaker A:But when you get to get those wins, whether it's, you know, you've been saving a little bit of money every month, and now all of a sudden you're at a place where you can do something.
Speaker A:It's a different season of life in learning how to accept that.
Speaker A:And so I'd love to invite you back at some time because I think, you know, there would be a great dynamic for us to get into.
Speaker A:But one of the things that I want to do is always be mindful for you as a listener that you only have so much time.
Speaker A:I want to make sure in the show notes that we put links for contact information for Rio Revolution if you ever, because there are some amazing things happening here in East Tennessee.
Speaker A:If you got questions, get in touch with Pacer, get in touch with Rio Live Stream.
Speaker A:If you don't have a home church, but you have such a cool, cool story between the dual role of being both in the sacred and the secular.
Speaker A:And if I think I can, you know, summarize our entire time together.
Speaker A:It's not necessarily one big thing that you have to take away.
Speaker A:It's a series of small decisions stacked up on top of each other and being faithful, even when the manifestation of the dream doesn't happen quickly.
Speaker A:It might take 19 years, it might take longer.
Speaker A:The the results that I've seen in your life are inspiring to so many of us that I think are asking God, God, when is the next chapter?
Speaker A:When is it going to get easier?
Speaker A:It may never get easier, and that's the spoiler.
Speaker A:But the challenge you're going to be stronger for because you're going to be more endurance on your end.
Speaker A:Don't, don't take for granted the things that you might be struggling with today might be the things that God is allowing you to go through that are shaping your character and revealing parts of him that he wants you to know.
Speaker A:So, Pacer, I want to thank you for being a guest on the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker A:This has been a lot of fun.
Speaker A:Anytime mentor in your life, you want to make sure you honor your time, but we'll put the information in there.
Speaker A:And for those that are friends and family, I hope you guys will check out other episodes of the One Big Thing.
Speaker A:I have people from all backgrounds, whether it's faith, you know, they didn't grow up in faith.
Speaker A:They're in business, they're in sports, in the NFL.
Speaker A:So it's just fun to hear people's stories and things they've gone through.
Speaker A:So, as always, thank you for being my guest on the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker B:Loved it, enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Steve, thanks for checking out my show.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to write a review or drop a comment wherever you're listening or watching.
Speaker A:And be sure to stay connected.
Speaker A:Did you know you can subscribe to my YouTube channel, which is Eve CampbellPR?
Speaker A:That's Steve Campbell, PR and I'm a real person who's reachable.
Speaker A:You can find me on all my socials and connect with me.
Speaker A:If you have topics or guests you'd love to hear from, let me know.
Speaker A:But thanks for being a part of this channel.
Speaker A:Journey with me and until next time, enjoy other episodes of the One Big Thing podcast.
