Episode 53
How To Thrive in a Toxic Workplace with Leigh Elena Henderson
Today, we're diving into the wild world of workplace dynamics with our fabulous guest, Leigh Elena Henderson, a former corporate executive turned content creator and HR expert. Leigh , under her alias of 'HR Manifesto" is practically a superhero when it comes to navigating the murky waters of toxic corporate cultures. Leigh has spent almost two decades in the HR trenches, collecting tales of workplace woe like some people collect stamps.
Her one big thing? It's all about finding your personal vision and aligning it with your career to break free from the chains of toxicity.
We explore the significant shifts in career dynamics post-COVID, focusing on how individuals are navigating transitions, understanding their worth in the job market, and the importance of asking the right questions during interviews. Our discussion emphasizes the need for a growth mindset and the courage to embrace change, while also addressing the emotional aspects of career dissatisfaction and the quest for authenticity in workplace culture.
So, if you’re feeling stuck, exhausted, or just plain confused about your work life, grab a comfy seat and get ready for some real talk that might just spark your next big move!
Takeaways:
- Toxic workplaces can leave a mark, but surviving them can turn you into a pro at thriving and finding your way out, just like Lee did!
- Finding your personal vision is key to success; it's about asking yourself who you are today and what you really want from life.
- If you're feeling misaligned in your career, it's time to check in with yourself and recognize when it's time to move on to greener pastures!
- Networking is crucial! Whether it’s reaching out to your old contacts or joining new associations, it’s all about connecting with others to explore new opportunities.
- Remember, your skills are like superheroes - they can save the day! You just need to know how to showcase them to potential employers.
- Feeling burnt out? It's okay to pull back and set healthy boundaries. This way, you can focus on your job hunt without losing your sanity.
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About Leigh:
Leigh Elena Henderson is the Founder and CEO of HRManifesto, LLC and considers herself a “toxic workplace survivor” after working nearly 20 years in Corporate America supporting a handful of Fortune 100 companies as an Human Resources (HR) executive. Leigh now devotes her time to helping workers thrive through approachable coaching and inspired storytelling through her social content creation, keynotes, writing, and training resources. You can catch @HRManifesto across all the socials, where Leigh strives to unify followers and create community around the shared human experience of work and help all maximize their professional success.
Social media links:
T I K T O K: https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto
L I N K E D I N: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leighelena
I N S T A G R A M: https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto/
T H R E A D S: www.threads.net/@hrmanifesto
Y O U T U B E: https://www.youtube.com/c/hrmanifesto
W E B S I T E: www.hrmanifesto.com
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Transcript
Welcome to the One Big Thing podcast where inspiration meets transformation.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Steve Campbell, and I'm excited to have you join me today.
Speaker A:I welcome guests from all walks of life to the show.
Speaker A:We're going to spend about 30 minutes getting into their story and sharing the one big thing that they want to share with all of you that can help you move the forward in your life.
Speaker A:So thank you for being my guest in the One Big Thing and enjoy this episode.
Speaker B:But just like you, me, everybody else, you know, I had a number of experiences within very toxic workplaces, just by the nature of my expertise within hr.
Speaker B:And so I was going place to place and experiencing so much trauma and became accidentally, I like to say, an expert in toxic workplaces, surviving them, exiting them, thriving.
Speaker B:And so after a very, very traumatic toxic workplace, I left corporate and I did the thing that every HR person especially says they're going to do, and that was start to write a book.
Speaker B:And I started writing this book that I called HR Manifesto.
Speaker B:And I was looking at the book and its content and I was wondering, would this really help people?
Speaker B:Like, how can I vet to see if this really helps people?
Speaker B: e journey, which started June: Speaker B:And so that is how I kicked off my socials HR Manifesto.
Speaker B:But I continue to do it because people reach out constantly.
Speaker A:Well, welcome to the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Steve Campbell.
Speaker A:Super excited about this one.
Speaker A:Today I have Lee Elena Henderson on with me.
Speaker A:This is really a first conversation for us today because I've just admired her work from afar.
Speaker A:You know, some of us, we veg out on social media.
Speaker A:I'm a victim of that.
Speaker A:I try to set parameters and boundaries, but with four kids in life with my wife, sometimes social media is a safe space to kind edge out.
Speaker A:And recently I was going through my reels and because of analytics and searches, you know, they start recommending videos to you.
Speaker A:And I saw this face popping up every six or seven reels and it was Lee and it was videos about workplace and her work that she does with HR Manifesto.
Speaker A:And she makes some of the funniest videos that you can just tell from the likes, the comments hits a nerve with so many people that spend the majority of their life truthfully working and providing for their family.
Speaker A:And we all deal with things that sometimes hit a nerve in the wrong way.
Speaker A:We try to be good employees, but sometimes things just don't make sense.
Speaker A:Sometimes you want to have conversation employees that you wish you could have, but you want to tote the line.
Speaker A:You want to be full of grace and then you're like, man, I wish I would have said that.
Speaker A:Well, Lee through her content exposes all of that.
Speaker A:So if you are here because you love her work, welcome to the One Big Thing.
Speaker A:I always tell people this is an interview style show where I have great human beings that are just trying to make a difference in people's lives to come and share their One big thing that can hopefully help inspire you regardless of what season you're in, what or what you're going through.
Speaker A:And I think we're going to have a lot of fun with Lee.
Speaker A:So, Lee, welcome to the One Big Thing.
Speaker A:For those that don't know, you have never consumed your content, which is incredible.
Speaker A:What are a few things here right at the beginning you want people to know about you?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, first off, thank you so much.
Speaker B:What a lovely introduction.
Speaker B:It's great to be here.
Speaker B:And I am so sorry that that algorithm was shooting you my videos every six, seven reels like you said, you know, but that algorithm like, oh boy, I live and die.
Speaker B:So I'm glad that worked out.
Speaker B:But yeah, you know, I'm Lee and for me I have been a survivor of corporate America for nearly 20 years.
Speaker B:And so, you know, I've worked for a handful of Fortune 100 organizations.
Speaker B:I became an executive pretty early.
Speaker B:I was in my 20s and I have seen the good, bad, ugly and uglier and horrific and tragic and you name it, you know, thanks to people in a confined space of work.
Speaker B:And so, you know, background wise, I love all things organizational behavior, total nerd and I love understanding people, striving to understand people, but just like you, me, everybody else, you know, I had a number of experiences within very toxic workplaces just by the nature of my expertise within hr.
Speaker B:And so I was going place to place and experiencing so much trauma and became accidentally, I like to say, an expert in toxic workplaces, surviving them, exiting them, thriving.
Speaker B:And so after a very, very traumatic toxic workplace, I left corporate and I did the thing that every HR person especially says they're going to do.
Speaker B:And that was start to write a book.
Speaker B:And I started writing this book that I called HR Manifesto.
Speaker B:And I was looking at the book and its content and I was wondering, would this really help people?
Speaker B:Like how can I vet to see if this really helps people?
Speaker B:And that is when I download a TikTok and that night posted two videos and I went into it like I go into everything and I asked, okay, what does success look like for me doing this?
Speaker B:And I said, well, you know, I hope I could help one person.
Speaker B:And by video two, somebody had reached out and said, God, this really helped me.
Speaker B:And here's how.
Speaker B: e journey, which started June: Speaker B:And so that is how I kicked off my socials HR Manifesto.
Speaker B:But I continue to do it because people reach out constantly, like you mentioned the comments, and I'm deep in my comments.
Speaker B:I love replying to people.
Speaker A:It's a fun place to play.
Speaker B:Yes, but they reach out in the comments and, you know, they.
Speaker B:They message me, they email me, and they just share the impact, you know, of my messaging.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And my approachable coaching style, my transparency, the authenticity of the content.
Speaker B:And that's what keeps me producing, and that's what keeps me creating.
Speaker B:And I love coaching people.
Speaker B:Corporate, I was coaching thousands of people directly, indirectly, but my main focus was coaching leaders on how not to be jerks.
Speaker B:And then when I started social, I had the epiphany that, oh, my gosh, my purpose is helping others be successful in work and in their lives.
Speaker B:And I'm having an impact, but it's onesie twosie, especially with the leaders, right?
Speaker B:But, oh, my gosh, on social, I can impact millions on what not to tolerate.
Speaker B:What if shifting the workplace is a movement that starts with workers not tolerating the behaviors that they're experiencing at work and recognizing their worth?
Speaker B:What if we shifted the workplace that way?
Speaker B:What if we made it better that way?
Speaker B:Because after 20 years, I know it's not going top down, because top leadership is really benefiting from folks that are easily exploitable.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And okay with experiencing toxicity and trauma.
Speaker B:So I had that epiphany, and, boy, that just wakes me up in the morning.
Speaker A:Well, and I think what your content does, and I want to get it out right here at the beginning.
Speaker A:Give people HR manifesto.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They can follow you on TikTok, please.
Speaker B:All the things.
Speaker A:So if you.
Speaker A:If you follow Lee, just tell her you heard her on the One Big Thing podcast.
Speaker A:Show her some love.
Speaker A:But then you also have a few podcasts, so why don't you share the podcast?
Speaker A:So if people want to keep following your journey and get more information right at the beginning.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And so you know, about what, a year and a half ago, boy, does time fly, doesn't it?
Speaker B:I joined up with two other, I'd say business Influencer content creators.
Speaker B:And we created a podcast called HR Besties.
Speaker B:And so it's everywhere you get your podcast but HR besties.com to learn more about the journey there and the content.
Speaker B:And we, we, you know, kind of cheekily say that we talk business and bs, you know, so again, very authentic, approachable content.
Speaker B:You know, we are discussing things that you probably want to discuss at work but won't and then who do you talk this real with?
Speaker B:You know, so we basically give a peek behind the corporate curtain, you know, to offer our insights as, you know, business execs and the function of HR and people spaces and you know, really again, you know, hope to inspire people in their work, hope to help others maximize their success at work.
Speaker B:But we love doing it.
Speaker B:We absolutely love doing it.
Speaker B:So I'm a co host, host there and shout out to Ashley Hurd and Jamie Jackson, my other co hosts.
Speaker A:I appreciate you.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's fun too.
Speaker A: So prior to: Speaker A:How long were you in the corporate space leading up to that and then within that time how many different places, just for context, had you worked?
Speaker B:Yeah, so when I started HR Manifesto, I want to say I was maybe 17 years in ish.
Speaker B:I'm right under 20.
Speaker B:And actually I, because of HR Manifesto and the opportunities that it's afforded me, you know, I am now a full time content creator, writer.
Speaker B:I've got my first book coming out this year, keynote speaker, I do conferences, all sorts of engagements, webinars, you name it.
Speaker B: started January of last year,: Speaker B:So that's been brilliant.
Speaker B:That is the biggest gift really of this journey for me, especially when you.
Speaker A:Can speak about things you've experienced yourself.
Speaker A:When you create content, some of the most authentic content you can make is the stuff that you are truthfully figuring out in real time.
Speaker A:You can become an expert in certain things.
Speaker A:But for you, the fact that you spent 17 years in HR, you know, within those 17 years, how many different corporations did you work for?
Speaker B:You know, I worked for and I'll just list because hey, you can follow me on LinkedIn if you like to too.
Speaker B:That's that that resume there of mine is real, but Ford, Lockheed Martin, ge, Caterpillar, Nestle Startup.
Speaker B:So small businesses, just small businesses, very small businesses.
Speaker B:But I had a lot of opportunities, many of which I was tapped for which is always nice, right?
Speaker B:You get that little tap on the shoulder, hey, you're ready for this next big thing.
Speaker B:And so that always felt good.
Speaker B:That was rewarding.
Speaker B:But I became known as someone that loved puzzles and could fix things.
Speaker B:And that's because I'm really high in strategy.
Speaker B:I mean, that's my number one strength.
Speaker B:And so I remember even being dubbed and nicknamed Ms.
Speaker B:Fix it, which means I was the person that was thrown in to reorgs.
Speaker B:Lots of M and A activity, acquisitions, joint ventures, startups, you name it.
Speaker B:Just like really messy spots that needed some structure.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so hence the toxic experiences, you know, are abundant.
Speaker B:Because in.
Speaker A:Were they toxic, toxic experiences in the majority of your places, Was it limited to a few?
Speaker B:The majority, yeah.
Speaker A:Because whenever you're context too, and that's kind of what I was alluding to, it'll let you keep running, right?
Speaker A:The content that you're creating is because you've experienced multiple places across multiple industries.
Speaker A:And I think, I think part of what I want to get into today, once we kind of address your one big thing, is helping the individual realize when there actually is an issue that isn't just them.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Because I think we isolate.
Speaker A:Why is my ball so hard on me?
Speaker A:Or like, why.
Speaker A:Why is everything.
Speaker A:You spend 80% of your life building a career with people you work with, people you report to.
Speaker A:And there's a difference between, like, you're, you're not.
Speaker A:If you're being honest, I'm not doing a good job, I'm not showing up, I'm not meeting my requirements versus I'm doing everything I'm being asked to do.
Speaker A:And this is still a toxic environment.
Speaker A:How do I know when in that decision tree I' done everything I can possibly do to address managers or whatever, that this is not okay and when it's time to go?
Speaker A:And so part of the things that I want to get in today, which I heard you talk about in another video, is how many people are just leaving companies with no plan because they just can't take it anymore.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So there's so much that I want to get into today, but I think that context was super helpful for people that are like, how does she know what she's talking about?
Speaker A:You've worked for all these corporations and now you're creating pieces that are resonating with individuals and giving voice through comedy to fact of like, okay, I'm not alone.
Speaker A:This is real.
Speaker A:People experience this.
Speaker A:So I want to jump right into though your one big thing, because that's the whole Point of people coming to this show is sharing their one big thing.
Speaker A:And I think we're going to unpack a lot of what we were just getting into that.
Speaker A:So, Lee, Elena Henderson, if I had to ask you, what is your one big thing?
Speaker A:What is the thing you want a listener leaving today to know, to implement, to start to work on vision.
Speaker B:And now let me expand on that.
Speaker B:Of course, right?
Speaker B:As I already mentioned, I have coached a lot of people, a lot of people within the workplace, outside the workplace, online, you name it, right?
Speaker B:I do very direct coaching.
Speaker B:I do low key coaching, like you say, kind of through comedy.
Speaker B:But as I was going through my career and coaching employees on the daily and leaders on the daily, there, there were several themes that always arose and it did not, it did not matter.
Speaker B:The industry or the environment or the business or the company, just, just humans.
Speaker B:We are very consistent in our behaviors.
Speaker B:And so I started picking up on themes which actually led me, Shameless Plug, to write my first book, which will come out later this year, called Work Rescue.
Speaker B:And basically it's a phased approach for, you know, finding the job you want, living the life you want.
Speaker B:And the first phase is called vision.
Speaker B:Go figure, right?
Speaker B:And so what I have gleaned and what I myself am, you know, I'd say good at, right?
Speaker B:Like one of the big indicators of my success has been defining my personal vision.
Speaker B:And so if you reflect, many people do that on the onset of their careers.
Speaker B:They do that in college or in high school.
Speaker B:What do I want to be when I grow up?
Speaker B:And you see this vision for the future, and it stays relatively static for you, but only because most people don't revisit it and have a continuous conversation with themselves on what do they want, who are they, what are their values, what are their strengths.
Speaker B:But as we grow mature, experience things, beautiful things, traumatic things, we change.
Speaker B:We are in constant change and movement.
Speaker B:And so I had noticed when I was coaching people, they'd say, well, I don't know what my purpose is, or I don't know this, or I don't know that, or, you know, I just know that I feel bad.
Speaker B:I feel like I don't have fit.
Speaker B:I feel misaligned.
Speaker B:They were having tons of feels, but they never stopped to think, well, what am I out of alignment from?
Speaker B:Who am I now?
Speaker B:They didn't do kind of that gut check and that, what is my vision for my future now?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:They were always chasing jobs or a promo and leaving that up to the employer to decide, right?
Speaker B:Instead of taking personal accountability they may have had a professional vision, but what about that personal one?
Speaker B:Who are you?
Speaker B:We are always changing.
Speaker B:And so for me, vision is that key indicator of success.
Speaker B:Those people that are continuously authentically checking in with themselves and asking, who am I?
Speaker B:Who am I this year, today, this moment?
Speaker B:What is it that I want?
Speaker B:What do I value?
Speaker B:And if I feel bad with what I'm doing professionally, is it misaligned then with who I am and what my strengths are and what my values are today?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So again, personal vision for me is absolutely that one big thing.
Speaker B:I am constantly checking in with myself, and maybe it's because I'm an only child, so I'm constantly talking to myself, but I'm always asking myself, who am I?
Speaker B:What do I want?
Speaker B:Am I out of misalignment?
Speaker B:And that's an important conversation to continue having with you as you continue on through life.
Speaker A:Hey, let's take a quick break.
Speaker A:Give me one minute, because I want to talk to you about something that changed my life.
Speaker A:A few years ago, a friend introduced me to Lem's, a minimalist shoe company out of Boulder, Colorado.
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Speaker A:Two years ago, I bought my first pair of zero drop shoes.
Speaker A:And I'm not talking about those weird web toe shoes, just zero drop minimalist shoes.
Speaker A:And it forever changed my life.
Speaker A:My toes are finally able to breathe, my foot and my arches have begun to strengthen and my back pain has gone away.
Speaker A:So if you're looking for a spark or a change that can truly impact your overall health and well being, check out my friends at Lem's.
Speaker A:Visit lemshoes.com today and check out their amazing selection of men's and women's shoes.
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Speaker A:So check out Lemsshoes.com today and you won't regret it.
Speaker A:And I think you know a lot of listeners, you get singles, you got married couples.
Speaker A:I think some of the worst things you can do that I did to my wife Stephanie when I was in my prior large corporation.
Speaker A:Lot of toxicity.
Speaker A:Never knew I was signing up to be a volunteer firefighter because I was just putting out flames every day, walking into an office, shouting matches.
Speaker A:20 years younger than everybody, I'm not even a manager.
Speaker A:And yet I was in between men and women, different ranks, you know, one being the powerful high income earner, the other being more of an admin role, an eighth of the salary and just disrespect, dishonor.
Speaker A:And then I walk in and it's just like, fix it.
Speaker A:And I'm like, you can't fix people that don't want to change.
Speaker A:I can give you every manuscript in life about, you know, grace in communication, but if you are going to pick a hill to fight on, then there's no breakthrough.
Speaker A:And what ended up happening was that wore on me so much that I would bring it home at night.
Speaker A:And so, you know, you're with your spouse and how was work today?
Speaker A:And if you're not careful, every conversation is about the people that make your day miserable to the point that it's not your spouse's job to carry the burden that you have to deal with every day.
Speaker A:And so I think there's a lot of people out there that say, okay, if I take time, in what limited time, I do have to try to cast vision for myself what I value, like, what do I do with that?
Speaker A:Because I think there's a lot of people that feel stuck in their careers, stuck in their position, stuck wherever they are because they got kids, they, they, they have costs that they have to pay for.
Speaker A:And the idea of leaving or moving or having a difficult conversation.
Speaker A:We all desire change or more productivity.
Speaker A:But the fear that sets in of, like, what if it doesn't go well?
Speaker A:What if I get let go?
Speaker A:What if I, you know, and your spouse is always the one who's like, you gotta speak up.
Speaker A:And it's like, okay, great, yeah, and I'm gonna lose my job tomorrow.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So how do you, how do you coach or how do you consult?
Speaker A:If we had a listener that called and said, look, I recognize things in my day to day are not ideal.
Speaker A:I don't feel respected.
Speaker A:I feel like I'm doing a good job.
Speaker A:It's all I know because What I've noticed, LinkedIn is an interesting animal.
Speaker A:Today I found out from your HR bestie that she sent you a DM on LinkedIn that led to a podcast.
Speaker A:Most of my DMs are from people from other countries promising me the sun, moon and stars via podcasting promotion.
Speaker A:And I'm just like, stop messaging me.
Speaker A:But LinkedIn, is this funny, you can say whatever you want about yourself.
Speaker A:And like, how do you validate that, right?
Speaker A:If I see your picture and I've never met you and it says executive vice president, senior manager of Exxon, like some company I've never heard of, everybody is using AI tools and, and proper language to show up.
Speaker A:And it's just like, I just want to know, like, who loves people, who's really good at their job and how can we run together in the right direction and it's too confusing.
Speaker A:And so when you look though, at people's work history, it's all over the map.
Speaker A:And if you look at what they went to school for.
Speaker A:I went to school to be a teacher.
Speaker A:I would have never imagined my wildest dreams.
Speaker A:I'd be doing what I do now and also creating, you know, podcast material.
Speaker A:This was never on the agenda.
Speaker A:And I meet so many people today that over cups of coffee on the ball field, coach my kids, whatever, it's like, what do you do for a living?
Speaker A:And people tell you, and it's like, oh, did you go to school for that?
Speaker A:And they're like, absolutely not.
Speaker A:And I had this conversation with a guy who was a dear friend of mine and as we were talking, he was like, I'm not happy, but I don't know what else I would do because I don't even know if what I've been doing is translatable.
Speaker A:You know, like, if someone really asked, what's a day to day look like for you?
Speaker A:I don't even know if what I shared, someone would be like, I gotta have that come, come work for me versus just like, am I just doing stuff?
Speaker A:So you have this vision, right?
Speaker A:You want to cast a vision, but like, what do you do with that?
Speaker A:People feel like, where do I go if what I put on paper and then what's in front of me aren't matching?
Speaker A: at's a good starting point in: Speaker A:Where does somebody go with that?
Speaker B:I heard like 20 questions in there.
Speaker B:Lowkey.
Speaker A:Pod.
Speaker A:This is kind of what we do.
Speaker A:I absolutely minutes, but they're very deep because I don't want it to just be an inquisition back and forth.
Speaker A:I really want to help people and I think, as listeners think.
Speaker A:And so if there's 20, pick whatever, however many one.
Speaker B:I know, right?
Speaker B:Well, gosh, I just would love to comment on the ridiculousness of LinkedIn first and foremost.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh, now I know.
Speaker B:But boy, there's a, there's a lot of fake ness right on, on LinkedIn.
Speaker B:It's, it's turned, like you said, you know, it really kind of takes me aback some days.
Speaker A:Change agents, I don't even know what a change agent is.
Speaker B:Disruptors.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're everywhere.
Speaker A:And I'm like, okay, what is it?
Speaker A:I know you asked them, they would.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:And then that whole credibility thing, you know, you go and you look at the profile and they've never even done what they're trying to sell you or preacher preaching about, you know, so like all things buyer beware, you know, be, be careful out there.
Speaker B:But, you know, post vision, as I will explain in my book, I shift and I encourage folks to move into transition.
Speaker B:And transition is really all about action.
Speaker B:And so if you are sitting in a role that you do not enjoy in a business that you believe is toxic because toxicity is very subjective, you may feel like something's toxic because it doesn't fit you, but others around you, you may be like pigs and poop, they love it, right?
Speaker B:They're thriving.
Speaker B:So it's a very personal experience and journey, very subjective, what you deem toxic and you know, what's not working for you, and that's all that matters.
Speaker B:But if you are in that position, and of course there's a lot on the line, we need insurance, we need bennies, we need support, we need, we need money, all of those things, right?
Speaker B:You start taking action, you start taking small action, but you start moving.
Speaker B:And ways you can move and start taking action can be things like warming up your network again, joining external associations, meeting people, attending conferences, getting trained on something you've always wanted to get, training on skill development.
Speaker B:But first and foremost, it's beginning to set expectations for yourself and healthy boundaries for yourself.
Speaker B:So especially if you're experiencing burnout in a toxic environment, you are giving it your all.
Speaker B:Most likely you're beat down, you're worn down, you've been gaslit, most likely into thinking that you can't provide any value.
Speaker B:You wouldn't provide any value, no one else will want you.
Speaker B:Basically that you're stuck.
Speaker B:You know, they, those toxic employers and bosses, they beat you down that way on purpose, so you stay, right?
Speaker B:So they can keep exploiting you.
Speaker B:It's very purposeful, but it's not true.
Speaker B:You have a lot of value and a ton to offer.
Speaker B:And the issue is they don't deserve you, but they trick you into thinking that you don't deserve anything else.
Speaker B:So lots of mind games, right?
Speaker B:But beginning to really tap that support network, reach out to a support network, share your experiences, become a part of a community Set those healthy boundaries where you are just doing what you're paid to do.
Speaker B:You start pulling back a little bit so that you aren't so exhausted, so you can do things like job hunt and network and reach out and even just dream, really.
Speaker B:I mean, even just dream.
Speaker B:Start planning, start thinking about the vision, all of that for what you want your life to be.
Speaker B:I mean, those are all steps forward, those are all steps out.
Speaker B:And it may take a while.
Speaker B:I mean, the.
Speaker B:I don't know what the latest research is, but back in the day, a couple years ago, I mean, it can take 8 months to 12 months to land that right next role, you know, especially without a network or, you know, if you're starting from scratch, let's say.
Speaker B:So it can take some time, but that's okay because you can be very purposeful about it and get where you need to go, which is somewhere else that serves you.
Speaker A:I think we've come such a far away with social media.
Speaker A:You used to just be able to go on MySpace and just poke face, fake top friends and like, that was bad.
Speaker A:And then on Facebook, you could poke people, which was always just a weird.
Speaker B:That was weird.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was.
Speaker A:That was odd for everybody.
Speaker A:With LinkedIn, you got the open to networking, open to higher sticker, you know, which is always kind of strange to me.
Speaker B:Open to work.
Speaker A:Are you noticing from the work that you do, are.
Speaker A:Are people.
Speaker A:So you got a listener not happy.
Speaker A:They're not a pig swimming and poop, which I love that something's wrong.
Speaker A:Are you noticing that maybe years ago, people used to stay within the same industry because it's what they.
Speaker A:What they knew.
Speaker A:A nurse would go from one hospital to the next trying to find a better culture.
Speaker A:An engineer would stay with an engineering and attorney with an attorney work.
Speaker A:Are you finding that people are resetting, like, in a way that maybe covet changed everything for so many people just working remote.
Speaker A:Now you can work for a country in California, a company in California, live in Florida.
Speaker A:Like, there's so much more ability to be transitory in your career in a way that my dad, who was a Lockheed Martin employee, IBM employee, 35 years, the same basic place, same office brick, you know, couldn't imagine working from home, but now there's more.
Speaker A:It seems like there's never been more opportunity.
Speaker A:But are you noticing, like, people jumping from one field to another in a way that hasn't been experienced before, where they're just like, totally doing something completely different?
Speaker A:And if you have somebody that feels.
Speaker A:I don't want to Be a nurse anymore or like, I don't want to do this.
Speaker A:How do people even begin to figure out what they want to do?
Speaker B:To your point, Covid really changed everything.
Speaker B:Pre Covid, I never, ever even heard of somebody quitting without another job lined up post Covid.
Speaker B:Countless of times have I heard that people just getting so burnt out or frustrated that they just left altogether to figure it out.
Speaker B:And I say, if you can do that, kudos to you.
Speaker B:And in some of those circumstances, it's life or death.
Speaker B:I mean, I've had a number of people reach out to me wanting to unalive themselves because of their experience at work, because it's real abuse.
Speaker B:I mean, it is real abuse in some cases.
Speaker B:And you know, if you are listening to this and.
Speaker B:And you're like, wow, I'm contemplating hurting myself struggling in just the deepest of ways like that.
Speaker B:Grab your keys, grab your bag, get in your car and ghost them even you don't owe them anything.
Speaker B:But you do owe yourself, right?
Speaker B:I mean, first and foremost, your health, your safety.
Speaker B:But some people are in that dire a position with their employee experience.
Speaker B:And so please, please, please put yourself and your safety first and foremost.
Speaker B:So that's one theme that I'm seeing that I cannot.
Speaker B:I mean, I never thought I would see.
Speaker B:People just quit and then go figure it out.
Speaker B:So, wow.
Speaker B:I mean, and that just shows the shift of the workplace and really the resilience of people, the determination of people are shifting thoughts on work itself and its importance in our lives.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:I mean, there's just lots of things shifting and changing.
Speaker B:I am also seen, to use your direct question, people shifting industries, functions all together, work all together.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of that is due to the onset of side hustles, too.
Speaker B:I mean, look at me, right?
Speaker B:What a crazy example.
Speaker B:Did I ever have that in my.
Speaker B:My job journey that I would one day you know, be a influencer?
Speaker B:Hell, no.
Speaker B:You know, that was never, never, you know, a.
Speaker B:I mean, gosh, that was never something I could have, you know, imagined for myself.
Speaker B:But here we are.
Speaker B:So you have a lot of people, you know, taking up side hustles, chasing joy outside of work, and just having really unique transitions.
Speaker B:Then on the other hand, you have people that are also just so brave and so honest and so authentic with themselves to say, hey, this vision that I have for myself, the current one, nope, I need a pivot.
Speaker B:And I am going to do that.
Speaker B:I am going to listen to my body.
Speaker B:I am going to listen to what brings me joy.
Speaker B:I am Going to just shift altogether and I'm going to be brave and I'm going to do that.
Speaker B:And those people are really, really good at that.
Speaker B:Skills.
Speaker B:Translation, you know, so you gave an example of someone there, you know, a friend of yours or, you know, whoever you were talking to, saying, I don't, how do I even get another job?
Speaker B:I don't even know like, basically how I would translate my skills into something else or, you know, no, no one's hiring for what I'm doing now.
Speaker B:Yes, they are.
Speaker B:They are, trust me.
Speaker B:And that's where that vision audit comes in handy.
Speaker B:What do you value?
Speaker B:What are your strengths?
Speaker B:What are you good at?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:All of those things.
Speaker B:Checking in with yourself because you can, you can sell anything to anyone.
Speaker B:You really, really can.
Speaker B:And you can determine for yourself, okay, what are the things I do that I enjoy?
Speaker B:What am I known for at work?
Speaker B:Why is everybody coming to me?
Speaker B:What do they come to me for?
Speaker B:Oh, it's X.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Well, I enjoy doing X.
Speaker B:Maybe I want to do more X.
Speaker B:Could I get a certificate in X?
Speaker B:Can I get more experiences in X?
Speaker B:What jobs use X a lot, right?
Speaker B:I mean, it's kind of making all of those connections for yourself.
Speaker B:But the people that have changed jobs and industries and you name it, locations, whatever the change, change, change.
Speaker B:You know, they're, they're really good at being able to translate those skills into, into something else.
Speaker B:And skills, they are yours to keep and so very powerful.
Speaker A:It sounds like you're talking about 2.
Speaker A:Finding ways to create space to even think before you just go to the next thing.
Speaker A:Because I wonder if people that are in survival mode are literally just trying to clock out, get out and not think.
Speaker A:And so you're trying to create space.
Speaker A:I guess.
Speaker A:One question, I don't even know if there's an answer to this.
Speaker A:How do you, how do you know what you're worth monetarily?
Speaker A:When you, when you start careers, you, you take jobs and you get paid a salary.
Speaker A:And if you stay there and you keep moving up the salary, hopefully there's through promotions and things.
Speaker A:But if you're, if you're doing more than, than what you originally hired to do, what is a good way that if you were going to go seek something else, like how, how does somebody know I've acquired all these skills by just that were never asked of me?
Speaker A:I've learned how to do it.
Speaker A:I get paid 50, $60,000, but I think I'm worth more if they had an opportunity to connect with somebody at a conference.
Speaker A:And was offered an opportunity.
Speaker A:Is there a mechanism and evaluation for yourself?
Speaker A:Are there databases or something that somebody says, I don't want to be like, unrealistic and moonshot and like, I'm making 50 and I think I'm worth 250.
Speaker A:But like, if you did get a chance to reset and found a great company that said, Lee, what's it going to cost to bring it here?
Speaker A:Like, how could somebody know?
Speaker A:What does all this experience led me to?
Speaker A:Like, what am I actually worth to an employer?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've ever seen that meme out there about a water bottle and the price of a water bottle.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's something like, hey, you know, at Costco, you buy a bottle of water, it's 50 cents.
Speaker B:You buy a bottle of water at the grocery store, it's $1.50.
Speaker B:You buy a bottle of water at a convenience store, it's 2 bucks.
Speaker B:You buy one at a sporting event, it's $10.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I share that.
Speaker B:To say that environment matters, where you choose to do what you are good at doing and love to do matters.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so employers determine how to pay people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They valuate their jobs and they determine what that pay range is.
Speaker B:And so where you work matters because you can choose an employer that, guess what, I'll give me as an example, doesn't care about people.
Speaker B:So you think they're really going to pay their HR professionals worth a damn?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:But you could work at an employer that you know what really invests in people.
Speaker B:So they want the best HR professionals, they'll pay me five times.
Speaker B:So where you choose to do what you love to do matters.
Speaker B:It really, really does.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:There's databases.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:There's all sorts of salary guides.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You can Google it, you can get ranges.
Speaker B:But again, employers determine the pay range for certain job types, and they determine it based on the value of that job type to their organization, to their mission, to the perceived value to their customer.
Speaker B:You know, so engineers at an engineering firm, they're going to get paid a lot more.
Speaker B:Engineers at a company that doesn't really put a big emphasis on engineering, they're going to get paid a lot less.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I, I am not aware of a calculator that can, you know, specifically throw out a number of value based on what you do.
Speaker B:Your degrees, your, your years of experiences, all the skills.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I don't think that thing exists.
Speaker B:And if it does, it probably wouldn't be that accurate.
Speaker B:And it always asterisks, depends location, industry, you know, you.
Speaker B:You name it, right?
Speaker B:But that's why, you know, I would share with people, figure out what it is you love to do, what you're good at doing, your differentiator, what you're known for doing, and find that company or organization that also values what you do as much as you do.
Speaker B:Because, boy, they will pay.
Speaker B:They will pay for it.
Speaker B:People are missing what you got, and they need it bad.
Speaker B:You know, so well.
Speaker A:And how do you also help a listener?
Speaker A:They said, wow, I needed this episode more than I thought because I thought I was alone in my struggle.
Speaker A:I'd never heard a lead.
Speaker A:Now I'm checking out our content and I realized, boy, something's wrong.
Speaker A:Is there a list of questions or anything to provide listeners that they.
Speaker A:They start to warm back up to the networking and, you know, reaching out to individuals via text.
Speaker A:Hey, I'm thinking about some.
Speaker A:A change.
Speaker A:Do you know of anything now you're in front of company, why where you are stinks.
Speaker A:Company y starts touting culture in.
Speaker A:In.
Speaker A:It feels good, but like, it's almost like flirting.
Speaker A:When you're not happy in your marriage, anything seems better.
Speaker A:That's a terrible analogy.
Speaker A:But the idea is, like, how do you also see through to what's authentic?
Speaker A:Because you could sit with any company that wants you, wants to sell you on being there.
Speaker A:But are there questions people could be asking a company or due diligence that they can do to make sure that what is being presented is actually authentic and that is what work is like?
Speaker A:Because I would hate and I would imagine people leave a toxic environment sold on the pageantry of wherever they're gonna go, they show up and it's like, shoot, this place is really no different.
Speaker A:They just sold me a bag of goods.
Speaker A:Like, is there a way to questions to ask somebody during the interview process or things to look for on a website that would be a key indicator to somebody that you are?
Speaker A:Is it just looking at their social media and their website at the same time?
Speaker A:And are they people happy?
Speaker A:Is it reaching out to an employee?
Speaker A:Anything that you've learned that could help somebody know whether a company is really saying what they are?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think it starts with you yourself being honest on why your previous jobs didn't feel great to you.
Speaker B:Like, why was there not a fit?
Speaker B:Was it leadership, competence or lack thereof?
Speaker B:Was it lack of communication?
Speaker B:Like, was it coworker strife?
Speaker B:Was it too political?
Speaker B:Like, what was it about the last job or the job you're currently in as you're seeking new employment what is it that doesn't fit?
Speaker B:What is it that leaves that hollowness in your gut, Right?
Speaker B:What is it that you deem toxic about it?
Speaker B:And that's where you craft questions to personalize that interview process with those new employers.
Speaker B:And, you know, more now you have more data points than you did going into, you know, the job you're trying to leave.
Speaker B:So you should be able to ask different questions, more questions, better questions, more poignant questions.
Speaker B:It'll be a different experience interviewing for this next job, is my point.
Speaker B:You have lived and learned, right?
Speaker B:You have grown.
Speaker B:You are not the same person you were when you started that previous job.
Speaker B:So, yes, you'll have fear that I'm just going to repeat the sins of the past.
Speaker B:I'm going to make the same mistakes.
Speaker B:But you are a different person fundamentally.
Speaker B:And now you have a better idea of what you want to tolerate, what you want to experience, what you want out of employee experience.
Speaker B:And so you can ask more targeted questions to that.
Speaker B:You know, one question that I love to ask, because there are thousands of things you can ask.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:My point is it's very subjective.
Speaker B:But one thing that I like to ask because it matters to me is how are decisions made around here?
Speaker B:Like, who makes the decisions?
Speaker B:And if they go through this bureaucratic process, oh, my goodness, that is a red flag for me.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, well, you can make a proposal on how you want to do something, but then, you know, I have to approve it, and then we send it up to the VP of the department, and then it goes to the CEO.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:So that's telling me it's very bureaucratic.
Speaker B:I'm going to be micromanaged.
Speaker B:Decisions and therefore subsequent actions and solutions will take me months to get over the line.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh, I won't be able to complete my goals.
Speaker B:I mean, all of these things, you know, they are going to give you some insight as to, you know, the type of business that they're running there and the type of experience that you may experience now.
Speaker B:It's up to you to listen to that and read between the lines and trust your gut.
Speaker B:You know, you know, when something isn't really a fit or, you know, you're kind of queasy about it.
Speaker B:So, again, being honest with yourself on, you know, what didn't work before, what you need now, and if this could work for you in the future, all of that matters.
Speaker A:And, you know, my big takeaway as the host of the show is let's.
Speaker A:Let's help people that feel stuck In a season.
Speaker A:You know, there's certain things in life that you never asked for, that it's sad things happen to you and that it's an awful human experience.
Speaker A:You still got to work through it.
Speaker A:That doesn't define you.
Speaker A:You know, we've heard from prior guests, many of our setbacks become setups and way we never intended.
Speaker A:Seventeen years in an industry, who knew TikTok was going to take off?
Speaker A:And now you're getting to do something.
Speaker A:And that was one thing I was thinking about earlier.
Speaker A:I feel like, unfortunately, what happens today.
Speaker A:Not that you stumbled into content creation, but your past allowed you to say, I have some experience, to talk about what I am.
Speaker A:And now you've become something in a space because of your experiences.
Speaker A:But somebody who just watches from afar says, I can do that, too.
Speaker A:Not that they're setting themselves up to fail, but we're inundated with so much that's out there today that we sometimes don't allow just life to happen the way that it could, that we don't always know what today could bring.
Speaker A:And today could be the best day of your life.
Speaker A:You could be one connection away from breakthrough.
Speaker A:But I wonder how many people are trying to force breakthrough all the time to the point that they're upsetting themselves that it's not happening and losing out on something.
Speaker A:So I love the fact that you have directed this path after 17 years.
Speaker A:And this was something I talked about with another guest.
Speaker A:When you are in your 30s and 40s, 17 years sounds like a lifetime.
Speaker A:When you're at the beginning of your career or halfway through, because time is speeding up in a way that's unhealthy.
Speaker A:The expectation that's being set by culture of you need to be at a certain income, at a certain age, and owning equity in a company and doing all these things.
Speaker A:And sometimes it doesn't work that way.
Speaker A:And sometimes you have to be honest with yourself that, am I.
Speaker A:Am I doing any.
Speaker A:Everything I possibly could to really show up and be the best person?
Speaker A:Or when the first time someone spoke to me in a way I didn't like, I set up a boundary.
Speaker A:And now all of a sudden, I've created toxicity that isn't actually there.
Speaker A:It's just they pointed something out of me that's a flaw that no one ever has.
Speaker A:And so I want to, as we have our time here at the end, with all the things you've talked about, are there one or two.
Speaker A:You talked about the vision, but are there one or two things that you do in your Day to day or just in, in casting that vision or just practices day to day journaling anything apps that you use that have helped you sort through the life, that the fact that your life is moving at full speed ahead and you're still trying to make decisions, like how does Lee unwind or how do you work through something that doesn't feel good, like, to make sense of it, do you just kind of, like, bottle it up and let it go?
Speaker A:Or is there something that's helped you over the years?
Speaker B:Well, what I'll say is, you know, you talked about, you know, Lee, you have credibility.
Speaker B:That's basically what you're saying.
Speaker B:You know, you've experienced all this and now you're giving it back.
Speaker B:And you know, you know what you're talking about on the socials and you know, when you're starting out, those, that those two decades worth of work are daunting that you have ahead of you, you know, But I'd say the greatest thing that comes from having the real experience is discipline.
Speaker B:And what I mean is, is that what I share, I am very, very careful with it because I know I have influence, and because I've had all the experience that I have, I have the discipline to craft a message in a certain way where I know I'm not exploiting others, manipulating others, leading them down a bad path.
Speaker B:And if I didn't have those two decades, I could be a creator with a big platform that ruins lives, which there are out there, people that claim to be counselors or coaches or this and that, and they've never done that stuff a day in their lives, but they're just trying to get a quick buck, you know, and so I am so grateful, you know, to have my following, my community, my listeners.
Speaker B:And I hope that they know that I would never, ever lead them astray.
Speaker B:And I'm thankful for the discipline that, you know, the last two decades worth of work has given me to understand my power and influence and what I know and how to use what I know to help people.
Speaker B:And so that's, that's the beautiful thing about experience.
Speaker B:And if you're working towards something big, yourself or your early career, and just know, I just wish for you to be at this place where you can reflect and be like, gosh, I earned all of that and I did all that, and now I can credibly look someone in the eyes and share and really focus on helping them, because I know where I've come from and that, hey, I've got a message to share, you know, So I was just randomly reflecting on that when you, when you were talking, you know, but that discipline to know how to use all that experience, you know, really, really matters.
Speaker B:I'd say, you know, just a couple of things besides maybe discipline.
Speaker B:Hey, there's a good message there, right?
Speaker B:Being well intended, you know, just a couple things for me is that I, I have a growth mindset big time.
Speaker B:I mean, big time.
Speaker B:I have changed jobs so many times.
Speaker B:I love change.
Speaker B:I'm one of those freaks that just adores change and the volatility of change, which is very rare because humans thrive on familiarity and comfort through familiarity.
Speaker B:And people hate change.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:But I'm just one of those weirdos that has always embraced it because my ego doesn't need for me to know everything on day one.
Speaker B:I relish in the fact that I don't know crap the first day on a job.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:I love being a blank slate.
Speaker B:I love learning.
Speaker B:That's that growth mindset.
Speaker B:I think, you know, anything can be, you know, changed or affected by my influence on it.
Speaker B:You know, at work I can change policies, I could do this, I could learn everything.
Speaker B:I can develop, I can grow.
Speaker B:Ah, I love that.
Speaker B:I love to fail because failure to me is just learning.
Speaker B:So that growth mindset, that hunger for learning, those are things that keep me, those are things that keep me going.
Speaker B:And I think a big part of my, you know, success professionally and what I'm doing now, you know, just that hunger to know more, learn more, discover the curiosity, all of those, you know, I ask a lot of questions and I don't do it to be annoying.
Speaker B:I do it really to seek to understand, you know, because that means a lot to me.
Speaker B:Understanding it really does.
Speaker A:So well, this has been great because you see somebody like you and I love how intimately connected you want to be to people, to really help.
Speaker A:You've obviously created a platform that initially draws people in through humor and you know, if this has happened to you.
Speaker A:But I, I, I, I didn't get, because we haven't spoken before, the fact that you genuinely care about people's well being.
Speaker A:And to me, I think recognizing authenticity and truth when you're, when you're scrolling on Instagram, it's like I, I see a reel of you and then the next one is some business guy in some well lit studio and talking about how he, he lives three days in one day compared to us.
Speaker A:And you gotta live from like midnight till 3 and then 3 to 9 and you're like, dude, I just, my daughter was One of my girls walked in at 4am and woke me up, and I'm not gonna have a lot of energy today.
Speaker A:Now you're saying that I should be doing cold plunges and, you know, making more money the 10 times X.
Speaker A:And it's just like there's just people that are trying to survive.
Speaker A:And so some of the content that's out there today just really isn't helpful.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:I'm sure that content creator feels like I am crushing it.
Speaker A:This content about how much money I make and all these businesses inside hustles is great.
Speaker A:And then somebody's just like, what do I do with all of this?
Speaker A:Because it, it's, it.
Speaker A:It makes me feel worse feeling like, is this what everybody has the capacity to do?
Speaker A:When I just feel like I.
Speaker A:I don't even know where I'm going with my life, which creates depression and anxiety.
Speaker A:So I love the fact that.
Speaker A:Here's my challenge to listeners of this show.
Speaker A:Go, go follow Lee's contact content.
Speaker A:Subscribe to her channels.
Speaker A:Get in touch with her.
Speaker A:If you got questions, connect with her.
Speaker A:Because I can.
Speaker A:I can tell that you care and you have so much experience that you want to share with people that feel like at the end of the day, I don't feel like it's people that are being malicious or evil.
Speaker A:They're people that just want a fair shot at being human.
Speaker A:And what's hard is when you have authority figures that tell you who you are and what you're worth in a way that you believe a lie or feel stuck.
Speaker A:What would it look like to empower one of you listening to this to reset the course for your life because your spouse, your kids depend on you, and you can't be a shell of yourself till the day you die.
Speaker A:We only get one shot at this thing.
Speaker A:And so there's a difference between being fake and flaky and just jumping at the first sign of discomfort.
Speaker A:And then there's another, you've been doing all the right things and something still feels broken.
Speaker A:You might be onto something.
Speaker A:So, Lee, thank you for being my guest on the One Big Thing.
Speaker A:We will definitely put your contact information real quick.
Speaker A:When's the book come out?
Speaker B:Gosh, later this year.
Speaker B:I don't have a date.
Speaker A:But in the future, when it comes out, we'll have.
Speaker A:We'll have a link because podcasts are evergreen content.
Speaker A:So we'll make sure you got a link, a link to the book.
Speaker A:And if you follow Lee, let her know where he came from to follow the One Big Thing I'D love her to get some fan support, but thanks for being my guest on the the show.
Speaker A:Spin Along.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker A:Thanks for checking out my show.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to write a review or drop a comment wherever you're listening or watching.
Speaker A:And be sure to stay connected.
Speaker A:Did you know you can subscribe to my YouTube channel, which is tevecampbell PR.
Speaker A:That's Steve Campbell PR, and I'm a real person who's reachable.
Speaker A:You can find me on all my socials and connect with me me.
Speaker A:If you have topics or guests you'd love to hear from, let me know.
Speaker A:But thanks for being a part of this journey with me.
Speaker A:And until next time, enjoy other episodes of the One Big Thing podcast.
